Minnesota resident - carry in North Dakota

[jshuberg]

This is my understanding as well. They do not honor the MN permit, but if a MN resident has a permit from a state they *do* honor, he can carry in NoDak with their non-resident permit.

[xd ED]

The website paragraph doesn't trump the statute:

[quote]62.1-04-03.1. Reciprocity.
A person who has a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in that state and whose state grants to residents of this state the right to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon without requiring a separate license to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon issued by that state may carry, subject to the provisions of this state's law, a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in this state, and the
other state's license is valid in this state.

Therefore both FL and AZ permits would be honored by a MN resident carrying in ND.

I believe you are mistaken. The red highlighted text in your quote contradicts your assertion

MN does not recognize a NoDak permit, therefore No Dak does not recognize MN.

MN doesn't, AZ and FL do... there's no home state requirement in the statute. "Whose state" refers to the state you have permit in (not necessarily your home state), in this case AZ or FL. Again, I've called, and have been told this by 2 attorneys, a Sheriff, and a state instructor.[/quote]

As I'm now on my phone I cannot easily quote the law, but I'm quite sure the relevant state is the one on your DL.
I am not a lawyer, sheriff, instructor or any other official. But the law as read in the statute seems pretty clear to me as to how I will act.
Good Luck.

[Thunder71]

A person who has a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in that state and whose state grants to residents of this state the right to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon without requiring a separate license to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon issued by that state may carry, subject to the provisions of this state's law, a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in this state, and the
other state's license is valid in this state.

"By another state", FL is another state "who grants residents of ND the right to carry".

[farmerj]

MN doesn't, AZ and FL do... there's no home state requirement in the statute. "Whose state" refers to the state you have permit in (not necessarily your home state), in this case AZ or FL. Again, I've called, and have been told this by 2 attorneys, a Sheriff, and a state instructor.

So you are willing to be a test case and prove your point?

[Thunder71]

I don't carry to prove a point, but if I go to ND I'll be carrying on an FL permit.

[farmerj]

I don't carry to prove a point, but if I go to ND I'll be carrying on an FL permit.

And you are stating a position that would likely get someone ELSE arrested at worst.

And with the political turmoil between MN and ND, I would rather NOT be that test case or see anyone else be that test case as well. A totally and completely ******** political situation that has a direct impact on constitutional rights that go back 50 years or more.

[Thunder71]

I don't carry to prove a point, but if I go to ND I'll be carrying on an FL permit.

And you are stating a position that would likely get someone ELSE arrested at worst.

And with the political turmoil between MN and ND, I would rather NOT be that test case or see anyone else be that test case as well. A totally and completely ******** political situation that has a direct impact on constitutional rights that go back 50 years or more.

No, it's up to each individual to know the laws of the state(s) they visit. I heard it on the internet isn't an excuse - do as you wish.

[farmerj]

I don't carry to prove a point, but if I go to ND I'll be carrying on an FL permit.

And you are stating a position that would likely get someone ELSE arrested at worst.

And with the political turmoil between MN and ND, I would rather NOT be that test case or see anyone else be that test case as well. A totally and completely ******** political situation that has a direct impact on constitutional rights that go back 50 years or more.

No, it's up to each individual to know the laws of the state(s) they visit. I heard it on the internet isn't an excuse - do as you wish.

Your statement as you see it is the problem.


There is enough legal ambiguity in that law, a ND district attorney would string up a MN resident.

[Thunder71]

As I see it? No, as I've asked and received confirmation from multiple sources - as have USACarry and Handgunlaw.us

Have you contacted attorneys to address your concerns? I have. Twice.
Have you contacted a local Sheriff in ND? I have.
Have you contacted a state certified instructor in ND? I have.

[farmerj]

I don't carry to prove a point, but if I go to ND I'll be carrying on an FL permit.

And you are stating a position that would likely get someone ELSE arrested at worst.

And with the political turmoil between MN and ND, I would rather NOT be that test case or see anyone else be that test case as well. A totally and completely ******** political situation that has a direct impact on constitutional rights that go back 50 years or more.

No, it's up to each individual to know the laws of the state(s) they visit. I heard it on the internet isn't an excuse - do as you wish.

Let's see a letter from one of those and attorney's or sheriff stating that exact position you claim to have been instructed on. They won't do it.

[xd ED]

As I genuinely respect the good faith intentions of those in disagreement, I offer this to further the discussion:

If the NoDak AG can't/ won't offer a written opinion, I don't see the value of any 3rd party opinion.
Some web sites have nifty maps, but I doubt they will hold much water, legally speaking in court, or on the side of the road.

Here it the relevant portion of the statute taken from:

CHAPTER 62.1-04 CONCEALED WEAPONS

62.1-04-03. License to carry a firearm or dangerous weapon concealed - Class 1 firearm license and class 2 firearm and dangerous weapon license.
1. The director of the bureau of criminal investigation shall issue a license to carry a firearm or dangerous weapon concealed upon review of an application submitted to the director if the following criteria are met:
a. The applicant is at least twenty-one years of age for a class 1 firearm license or
at least eighteen years of age for a class 2 firearm and dangerous weapon
license;
b. The applicant can demonstrate that the applicant is a resident of this state by
providing a copy of a valid driver's license or state-issued identification card from this state that establishes personal identification through photographic means and shows the applicant's name associated with a valid residential street address in this state or the applicant possesses a valid driver's license from the applicant's state of residence that establishes personal identification through photographic means and shows the applicant's name associated with a valid residential street address and a valid concealed weapons license from the applicant's state of residence, which state has reciprocity with this state under section 62.1-04-03.1;
c. The applicant is not an individual specified in section 62.1-02-01 and for a class 1 firearm license the applicant:
(1) Has not been convicted of a felony;
(2) Has not been convicted of a crime of violence;

The red text highlights the relevant residence issue: as I read it, you must either live in NoDak, or have a DL from a state the has reciprocity with NoDak.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a MN resident does not meet either of the qualifiers.

[Thunder71]

That's to get a ND permit, not to have reciprocity with a permit from another state.

And you're right, a MN resident cannot get a ND permit.

[jshuberg]

There are a few states that only recognize reciprocity with permits issued by the state of residence of the person who has the permit. For example, Colorado is one, and handgunlaw.us specifies the following:

"Colorado Does Not Honor Non-Resident Permits/Licenses. You must be a resident of the state they honor for your permit to be valid in Colorado"
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/colorado.pdf

However, NoDak specifies no residency requirement. IANAL, but if you carefully read and decompose the statute in question:

A person who has a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in that state and whose state grants to residents of this state the right to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon without requiring a separate license to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon issued by that state may carry, subject to the provisions of this state's law, a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in this state, and the other state's license is valid in this state.

You'll see that the subject matter of the phrase "whose state grants" is referring to the noun being discussed immediately prior to it - " a valid license issued by another state". It is *not* speaking to the person who has the license, and it does *not* refer to residency of the person who has the permit. If the NoDak legislature wanted to introduce a residency requirement, they would have explicitly done so. They did not. For all intents and purposes the statute is more clearly read as:

A person who has a valid license issued by another state to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in that state and the license whose state grants to residents of this state the right to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon without requiring a separate license to carry a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon issued by that state may carry, subject to the provisions of this state's law, a concealed firearm or dangerous weapon in this state, and the other state's license is valid in this state.

IANAL - nor am I a NoDak instructor, but given that people "in the know" have stated there is no residency requirement for NoDak reciprocity, the fact that handgunlaw.us (which is really very good at tracking these things) makes no mention of a residency requirement for NoDak (when they do for other states), and that the statute makes no direct mention of a residency requirement, I believe that it is safe to presume that in fact there is no residency requirement for reciprocity in NoDak.

I believe that this notion is from mistakenly believing that the term "whose state" refers to the person, rather than the actual subject actually being discussed (the license), and then also inferring that the phrase "whose state" (when incorrectly applied to the person) should be read to mean "the persons state of residency". The statute does not say this, so logic dictates that it does not mean this.

Once again though - IANAL

[farmerj]

Not denying your interpretation. I think it's truly a valid one.

but given the political environment between MN and ND, I firmly believe that a MN resident carrying on a FL, PA, UT or other NR permit would be strung up. Any other state, they'd likely not even look twice at you.

[jshuberg]

Maybe they'll mess with you (I have no idea), but it doesn't change the law. While there *is* an explicit residency requirement when applying for a non-resident NoDak permit, there is *no* residency requirement for reciprocity with another states permit. The fact the legislature made it explicit in one location but not the other also speaks to the fact that if they had intended to attach a residency requirement to reciprocity, they would have done so explicitly.

Personally I would have no worries carrying in NoDak using my Florida permit. If they messed with me about it, I'd be on the phone with a lawyer.