Why is calling it CCW bad?

[EastSideRich]

What is the problem with calling it a CCW permit?
Before you guys tear me apart - I'm seriously asking. What specifically bothers you about the word concealed (assumingt hat's what part of "CCW" the issue is with)? It basically is a permit to carry a concealed weapon, as I have never (and I'm sure 99.99% of you haven't either) seen a person who carries openly.
Anyway, what's the difference? I really don't get it. I realize it offends some here, and will refrain from referring to it as such; but I really don't understand what exactly makes this a slanderous term.
Please educate me; and be gentle, I am not trying to irritate anyone, I really want to know.

Thanks,
dbd

[plblark]

It's the power of words and ideas. The power of assumption. In MN, the law is very specific. It NEVER mentions a concealed requirement. It's a Permit to Carry a Pistol. This leaves Open or Concealed up to the individual. Thus, calling it CCW limits the scope of its use.

It's a precision thing. People assume it has to be concealed. when they glimps it, maybe they call the cops as a gotcha because they think it's the law. we'll never educate everyone but by being precise among friends as it were, we can practice being precise and specific in public to the uninformed and biased.

[justaguy]

Where does it say pistol in the law? If you answer do it right please.

"It's a precision thing."

[plblark]

<pulls out wallet>
<retrieves permit> [edit, learns to type ]
"State of Minnesota Permit to Carry A Pistol"

So, the Permit itself is not a CCW Permit, and it's not all weapons (A couple states have a CCW that's a blank check aside from NFAs ... anything goes). It's Pistol. The long arms stuff is really a side effect of another statrute referencing the MCPPA.

You're right, I comingled the type of permit and the concealed language issues which are two seperate arguments against CCW as a descriptor.

I still assert my answer was technically correct.

[macphisto]

Where does it say pistol in the law? If you answer do it right please.

"It's a precision thing."

The card that Ramsey County issued me says in plain, capitalized English "PERMIT TO CARRY A PISTOL" so that's what I carry. Supposedly, there's no distinction between handguns and long guns in the law, but you'd have to be a moron to test that one out on the street.

[EastSideRich]

OK. Precision aside, I still don't get why the word concealed bothers anybody. What it is about the word "concealed" that is negative?

A friend asks you about your "concealed carry permit".
You respond "HEY, WHOA, hold on a second; it's not a permit to carry a concealed weapon. It's just a permit to carry a weapon."
Your friend: "But you carry it concealed, right?"
You: "Well, Yeah."
Your friend: "Does anybody open carry?"
You: "I don't think so."
Your friend: "So what difference does it make if it's a permit to carry a concealed weapon, or a permit to carry a weapon?"
You: (fill in this blank)

[plblark]

me: good point, Fred.

Here's how it works. In some states, if someone even sees the outline of your firearm you can lose your permit. Our law is written so that isn't a problem.

Since carry with a permit is legal and I'm no more or less represented by the training and back ground check stuff whether my gun is visible to you or not, why limit it to concealed?

The reason for the distinction is that the 2nd Amendment has already been infringed enough that I need a permit to carry a handgun. Since Mn has no concealed requirement by law, I'm aware of and thankful for that distinction even when I don't choose to take advantage of it.

[macphisto]

There are a number of people who carry openly all the time or on a regular basis, and plenty of others who do it from time to time. I used to think it was foolish to ever open carry, but have since learned that there are times and places when it's perfectly appropriate. I've done it on occasion.

I don't get bent out of shape if somebody who doesn't know any better calls it a CCW, CWP, or concealed carry permit, but will politely correct them and do my best to explain the law. What does bother me is people who should know better (i.e. instructors) calling it that.

[plblark]

The Hennepin County Gun Permit line also chaps me... They constantly refer to it as Concealed Carry. It mostly chaps me ecause that emphasis might serve to leave the impression that that is what the law says.

Mac makes a good point. I'm not confrontational about it. I let the conversation go on a bit and CCW / Concealed go on and then I casually mention : You know, MN law says nothing about concealed. It's a Carry Permit. Concealment is at the discretion of the individual.

Aside: Some people who DO know better still call it CCW / Concealed Carry courses because that's what their customers (most of whom don't yet have permits) will call it or look for when searching. The technical distinction is lost on them until after the course.

On gun boards, especially local, the distinction usually marks the level of experience of the poster. Believe it or not, some people get permits and carry all the while believing it IS a CCW law just based on the name of the class.

[EastSideRich]

One more post before bed:

I just want to clarify, my intent is not to irritate anyone with this question. I have recently found that it bothers some to refer to it as a concealed carry permit, which I will no longer do. I just don't completely understand why that particular word is offensive; it doesn't bother me in the least, as that is precisely how I will be carrying if and when I get my permit. I realize the law doesn't specifically say concealed. I just don't get how that word somehow makes it bad or dirty.

'night guys
dbd

[plblark]

just to clarify. no ill will intended or inferred. Just clarifying.

well ... ok, the brief moment before I pulled my permit out to be sure I had it right there was a momentary flash of WTF but I got over it

It IS a good question in that it often goes unasked or gets answered harshly. Hope you didn't think we were gonna bite your head off. That was not the intent and If I gave that impression I sincerely apologize.

[plblark]

I used to think it was foolish to ever open carry, but have since learned that there are times and places when it's perfectly appropriate. I've done it on occasion.

I'm reminded of something Greyskys said on Tcc: "I swear I could drive a tank to the market and no one would notice if it was painted candy apple red and had the words "Honda Accord" on it."

It's oh so true.

Oh, and MAc: I doubt many people at the Steel Shoot were concerned with your Open Carry

[justaguy]

Are you saying it is illegal to carry a long gun? I said law, not permit. It has been pointed out that the card means nothing.

The only reason I pointed this out is the fact that people will “freak” over the word concealed but call others morons for carrying long guns when it is technically legal. The same goes for open carry. Maybe it’s right maybe not? But it is legal. That was my point a holes. Sorry I can’t type.

[meltedeyes]

I used to think it was foolish to ever open carry, but have since learned that there are times and places when it's perfectly appropriate. I've done it on occasion.

I'm reminded of something Greyskys said on Tcc: "I swear I could drive a tank to the market and no one would notice if it was painted candy apple red and had the words "Honda Accord" on it."

It's oh so true.

Oh, and MAc: I doubt many people at the Steel Shoot were concerned with your Open Carry

Who wants to help me mount a turret on my jeep? I'll even spring for the candy apple red paint. I figure just use a PVC pipe for the cannon. I already have a 1919 to put on a pintel for the commander.

Hmm, I don't recall anybody at Dick's getting upset when I open carried there after the steel shoot

[ttousi]

On gun boards, especially local, the distinction usually marks the level of experience of the poster.

Agree

To some the myself included the part that is offensive is the "W". I carry firearms I don't carry weapons unless I am going to war or going out to intentionally do harm. In those instances the weapon can be a variety of things.........hammer, knife. baseball bat etc. CCW seems to imply that you are packing and ready for action.

The "C" for concealed implies it must be carried concealed, which has been pointed out is not the law.
So the middle 'C" is the only one that applies............so it is in fact a Permit to Carry.

So would you call the Cadillac in the driveway a chevy.......probably not

Again, the weapon part is what grates on me.

.02