Mystic Lake

[Pinnacle]

http://www.tribal-institute.org/lists/pl_280.htm

I have been told that I have a reading comprehension problem by someone once before - but nowhere in that statute do I see where Joe White Guy can pack heat on the reservation (Soverign Territory)

Apparently Red Lake is really another Soverign PLANET.

[Aceq2jot]

http://www.tribal-institute.org/lists/pl_280.htm

I have been told that I have a reading comprehension problem by someone once before - but nowhere in that statute do I see where Joe White Guy can pack heat on the reservation (Soverign Territory)

Apparently Red Lake is really another Soverign PLANET.

I think i may be people reading between the lines and reading what they want to see.

I know several indians down on Prairie Island and i there have been many white men found asleep on the railway lines when a train hits them At least that was what it was ruled as, they were asleep on the tracks. And there is a lot of things that happen on the reservations that you never hear of

So like you i wont be carrying on a soveriegn nation, and i would not advise it or even telling the natives how the law is and that have to comply to state law. Thats why a lot of moved back to the res, so they dont have to pay state tax on thier money.

[DeanC]

Ask Justin Fuhrer (2 links) and Jerry Mueller what they have learned about Indian sovereignty.

[nyffman]

This is all very interesting. However, it's all IANAL. Interesting that no real lawyers have seen fit to post on this.

[DeanC]

Well, of course not. As you can see in the Fuhrer case, you have to have special permission to practice law on the rez. There are probably just a tiny handful of those people in the world.

You go to the rez, you leave your civil rights behind in my opinion. How many and to what extent is up to the benevolence of the tribe.

[Pinnacle]

This is all very interesting. However, it's all IANAL. Interesting that no real lawyers have seen fit to post on this.

Yeah that is why I want to exericse EXTREME caution with this, and not hand out potentially dangerous advice that could wind someone in the jackpot.

This is untested - and I am still waiting on the opinion of the SCMSC Senior Counsel - some say he wil say anything that suits them no matter what the law states - I say that this would be as close to the final word on this issue - short of a very costly test case.

[Aceq2jot]

Little Fred goes home and tells his dad his weekend home work is to find the diffrence between theory and reality.
So his dad tells him to go ask his mother if a guy offered her a million dollars would she sleep with him??
So he goes in the kitchen where his mom is washing dishes and asks her. Well she hum's and har's and thinks about it, and turns to johnny and says " well of course a million is a lot of money and we could really enjoy the good life, why did you ask?" Fred says"well dad told me to ask you".

Fred goes back and tells his dad mum said yes. So his dad tells him to go ask his sister the same question.
So he asks his older sister who responds " hell yes a million bucks is a million bucks". So he goes back to his dad and tells him that she said yes, and that he didnt get what this had to do with his home work on theory and reality.

His dad sat him down and said well son it goes like this " In theory we are sitting on two million dollars but in reality we are living with two Whores "

I love the diffrence between theory and reality

[Andrew Rothman]

IMHO - An Indian Nation is just that - a Nation unto itself. The State of MN CANNOT Dictate laws that apply on soverign territory - the only thing that can is CONGRESS.... And iff and only iff it passes muster... They Cannot be Taxed or Governed by the State of MN - there are certain Federal Laws that apply - but nothing from the state applies - period.

And the federal law you are looking for is Public Law 280, which states that Minnesota tribal land (except for the Red Lake reservation and the postage-stamp-sized Bois Fort reservation at Nett Lake) is under the criminal jurisdiction of the state, NOT THE TRIBE.

They are a "sovereign nation" in some ways, but NOT in regard to criminal law (i.e. carrying a firearm).

So once more...

The State of MN CANNOT Dictate laws that apply on soverign territory

Yeah, they can, and in fact they must. Congress told them to.

Now, does that mean that a Mystic Lake security goon won't break the law? No. Might he get away with it? Perhaps. But the law is still the law.

It is very prudent to err on the side of caution, but please don't misstate the black-letter law.

[Pat]

IMHO - An Indian Nation is just that - a Nation unto itself. The State of MN CANNOT Dictate laws that apply on soverign territory - the only thing that can is CONGRESS.... And iff and only iff it passes muster... They Cannot be Taxed or Governed by the State of MN - there are certain Federal Laws that apply - but nothing from the state applies - period.

And the federal law you are looking for is Public Law 280, which states that Minnesota tribal land (except for the Red Lake reservation and the postage-stamp-sized Bois Fort reservation at Nett Lake) is under the criminal jurisdiction of the state, NOT THE TRIBE.

They are a "sovereign nation" in some ways, but NOT in regard to criminal law (i.e. carrying a firearm).

So once more...

The State of MN CANNOT Dictate laws that apply on soverign territory

Yeah, they can, and in fact they must. Congress told them to.

Now, does that mean that a Mystic Lake security goon won't break the law? No. Might he get away with it? Perhaps. But the law is still the law.

It is very prudent to err on the side of caution, but please don't misstate the black-letter law.

Even if you feel strongly that you are well within your rights, you have a snow ball's chance of getting your gun back after its confiscated. Just sit back and enjoy the hospitality our local tribes have to offer.

Or, try invading Canada...

[Pinnacle]

IMHO - An Indian Nation is just that - a Nation unto itself. The State of MN CANNOT Dictate laws that apply on soverign territory - the only thing that can is CONGRESS.... And iff and only iff it passes muster... They Cannot be Taxed or Governed by the State of MN - there are certain Federal Laws that apply - but nothing from the state applies - period.

And the federal law you are looking for is Public Law 280, which states that Minnesota tribal land (except for the Red Lake reservation and the postage-stamp-sized Bois Fort reservation at Nett Lake) is under the criminal jurisdiction of the state, NOT THE TRIBE.

They are a "sovereign nation" in some ways, but NOT in regard to criminal law (i.e. carrying a firearm).

So once more...

The State of MN CANNOT Dictate laws that apply on soverign territory

Yeah, they can, and in fact they must. Congress told them to.

Now, does that mean that a Mystic Lake security goon won't break the law? No. Might he get away with it? Perhaps. But the law is still the law.

It is very prudent to err on the side of caution, but please don't misstate the black-letter law.

The State of MN Cannot Dictate anything to the reservation and I have read PL280 and IANAL but nowhere in it do I see that the white guy can carry there.

This would be like the State of MN Pressing Laws into Canada and insisting that they be followed. I would certainly not want to have a close encounter with the tribe over soverignty issues - seemingly - they may have a tad more disposable income to prosecute or whatever - than say even the Anoka County Attorney...

I dont want to turn a useful discussion into an argument. When I lived in NY - my permit was absolutely no good on indian land. Absolutly ZERO value. In Fact as a first responder - we needed permission to enter the Nation - from the Chief - Leon Shenendoah (cool dude)

28 U.S.C. § 1360. State civil jurisdiction in actions to which Indians are parties

(a) Each of the States listed in the following table shall have jurisdiction over civil causes of action between Indians or to which Indians are parties which arise in the areas of Indian country listed opposite the name of the State to the same extent that such State has jurisdiction over other civil causes of action, and those civil laws of such State that are of general application to private persons or private property shall have the same force and effect within such Indian country as they have elsewhere within the State:


State of Indian country affected
Alaska All Indian country within the State.
California All Indian country within the State.
Minnesota All Indian country within the State, except the Red Lake Reservation.
Nebraska All Indian country within the State
Oregon All Indian country within the State, except the Warm Springs Reservation.
Wisconsin All Indian country within the State.

(b) Nothing in this section shall authorize the alienation, encumbrance, or taxation of any real or personal property, including water rights, belonging to any Indian or any Indian tribe, band, or community that is held in trust by the United States or is subject to a restriction against alienation imposed by the United States; or shall authorize regulation of the use of such property in a manner inconsistent with any Federal treaty, agreement, or statute or with any regulation made pursuant thereto; or shall confer jurisdiction upon the State to adjudicate, in probate proceedings or otherwise, the ownership or right to possession of such property or any interest therein.

(c) Any tribal ordinance or custom heretofore or hereafter adopted by an Indian tribe, band, or community in the exercise of any authority which it may possess shall, if not inconsistent with any applicable civil law of the State, be given full force and effect in the determination of civil causes of action pursuant to this section.

Seems to me that I as well as others need to go to law school to figure this all out.

My determination from this (on the side of EXTREME caution and respect for the Indian Nations Soverignty) DONT CARRY ON SMSC PROPERTY....

I hope that the General Counsel of the SMSC Calls me tomorrow or Wed... I cannot wait for him to tell me the position of the SMSC - from their point of view.

[Seismic Sam]

I'm not going to even try to get into the legal issues on this one. I would prefer to try and address the reality issues, at least as I see them.

Point #1: The Rez is like any other place that's posted, and you're unlikely to get busted unless they make you to begin with. If my wife can't see a 10mm on me while she's looking for it (she thought my cell phone was the gun... ), nobody else has a chance in hell.

Point #2: The exception to this is the gaming floor on ANY casino. Places like this generate 250 million dollars in PROFITS a year, so they can afford the most elaborate security systems conceivable. There are cheats who try to alter the electronic slot machines with equipment that will re-program the EPROMS on the machines, and one would assume that the scanners at the doors are looking for that stuff. Your chances of getting 40 ounces of steel past those scanners? I don't know what it is, but I'm not going to bet my freedom or a gun on it. I carry EVERYWHERE in NOLA but one place: The floor at Bally's. I have no idea what kind of exotic security systems they may have, but I don't want to find out.

In reality, the casino does not want to piss off 50,000 potential voting customers in Minnesota, so they probably won't be looking to hard in the hotel. The casino floor is another story. There you are subject whatever they can afford to buy to scan you, which is probably about the same as the NSA can afford.