States leaving the union again?

[XDM45]

Here's some links talking about states wanting to secede from the union (not like that would ever happen and start some sort of civil war /sarcasm) History has a way of repeating itself. I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it does pose an interesting thought regarding PTC/CCW for anyone who has a Arizona, Florida or Utah permit.

States where residents have filed secession petitions include: Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wisconsin and Wyoming.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/12/secession-petition-white-house_n_2116620.html?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl1|sec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D233624

http://sarasota.patch.com/articles/residents-petition-obama-white-house-for-florida-to-secede-from-us?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D233525

[Heffay]

My bet is the petition to deport everyone who signs those petitions will out number the number of people signing the secession petition.

[ammosponge]

Hmmmm I think a quick review if what constitutes sedition may be in order.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[tazdevil]

My bet is the petition to deport everyone who signs those petitions will out number the number of people signing the secession petition.

So a petition should be started to deport those that feel deporting people who exercise their rights to free speech is acceptable then!

[Heffay]

My bet is the petition to deport everyone who signs those petitions will out number the number of people signing the secession petition.

So a petition should be started to deport those that feel deporting people who exercise their rights to free speech is acceptable then!

I think it's more of a case of "lol look at all the chicken littles out there" and then rightly mocking them.

[Countryfried Frank]

I lost my scorecard. Are the 'chicken littles' the deporters, seceeders, anti free speech or all of the above?

[tazdevil]

The seceeder's are the free speechers. The deporters are the chicken little's. Those for deporting the deporters are the free speech defenders.



I think. I have a headache now.

[Shipyard]

headache puppy

wishes he had the spare time you all obviously do....

[breadstain]

I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it does pose an interesting thought regarding PTC/CCW for anyone who has a Arizona, Florida or Utah permit.

http://sarasota.patch.com/articles/residents-petition-obama-white-house-for-florida-to-secede-from-us?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D233525

Explain how this is an interesting thought for anyone with one of these permits you mention, please. I'm interested in the connection.

I don't like to post on this forum. I like to remain safely outside of overly passionate forum talk. I appreciated the falgore run of posts because I do get spare time at work and his were genuine entertainment. So I had to comment then. That being said, I have been reading this secession petition topic with some interest for a few days, and I'd just like to weigh in on ONE of the conversations I've been reading.

Its just a petition thats going to get some sort of pathetic response. Voting is really the only way for this idea to mean any more than a simple means of making a statement to the president. I think anyone can recognize that we aren't at the point where (yet again) states take votes as to whether or not they'll secede from the union.

Most notable is the equal disgust and disdain with which both sides of the political spectrum--right and left--regard each other. If one thing could be taken from this situation, it's that people seem to be taking this side or that side. I haven't really seen any arguments for middle ground throughout this. I have just seen "secessionists are idiots" and "screw all of you I want out," or other statements essentially to those degrees. Personally, I'm all for partisanship in the government given its current condition. Seeing as Minnesota is a staunchly blue state, I'm unsure of how many here would agree with me, gun loving or not. My point, though, is perhaps the prudent can learn something from this. Only a fool will disregard any such talk as the ramblings of an idiot (or idiots).

Remember, folks, that talk of secession began years before it actually happened the first time.

[XDM45]

I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it does pose an interesting thought regarding PTC/CCW for anyone who has a Arizona, Florida or Utah permit.

http://sarasota.patch.com/articles/residents-petition-obama-white-house-for-florida-to-secede-from-us?icid=maing-grid7|main5|dl3|sec3_lnk3%26pLid%3D233525

Explain how this is an interesting thought for anyone with one of these permits you mention, please. I'm interested in the connection.

I don't like to post on this forum. I like to remain safely outside of overly passionate forum talk. I appreciated the falgore run of posts because I do get spare time at work and his were genuine entertainment. So I had to comment then. That being said, I have been reading this secession petition topic with some interest for a few days, and I'd just like to weigh in on ONE of the conversations I've been reading.

Its just a petition thats going to get some sort of pathetic response. Voting is really the only way for this idea to mean any more than a simple means of making a statement to the president. I think anyone can recognize that we aren't at the point where (yet again) states take votes as to whether or not they'll secede from the union.

Most notable is the equal disgust and disdain with which both sides of the political spectrum--right and left--regard each other. If one thing could be taken from this situation, it's that people seem to be taking this side or that side. I haven't really seen any arguments for middle ground throughout this. I have just seen "secessionists are idiots" and "screw all of you I want out," or other statements essentially to those degrees. Personally, I'm all for partisanship in the government given its current condition. Seeing as Minnesota is a staunchly blue state, I'm unsure of how many here would agree with me, gun loving or not. My point, though, is perhaps the prudent can learn something from this. Only a fool will disregard any such talk as the ramblings of an idiot (or idiots).

Remember, folks, that talk of secession began years before it actually happened the first time.

I see 3 points you bring up, so please let me address them..

1) Regarding the PTC/CCW for AZ, FL, UT..... it's my speculation that those permits MAY still be valid in those states only, or they may not. It could depend on if you were a citizen of the US or whatever country that state becomes part of, or if it becomes stand-alone. I can't wrap this one up neatly in a bow for anyone because no one can predict what may or may not happen with them. What IS safe to say is that some sort of change would happen. What exactly? I don't know. No one does. My bottom line speculation/theory is that I wouldn't bet on those state's permits being valid upon secession.

2) I think anyone can recognize that we aren't at the point where (yet again) states take votes as to whether or not they'll secede from the union. I whole-heartedly agree with that. "The South gonna rise a'geen" Probably isn't going to happen ya'all. Now, just like then, a lot of saber-rattling is taking place, and it bears watching.

3) If there is one thing that mankind doesn't learn from history, it's that mankind doesn't learn from history. Although never exactly repeated, similar events do repeat themselves, time after time. The same game, a different name. Different players, same theme.Be it religion, politics, etc, this transcends groups and involves all of humankind. I know this is a broad and vast concept, so let me use a common example to clarify it.... "if you take away all guns, then people won't kill each other." which is a all-too-common mis-represented "fact" by the anti-gunner (group) crowed to which the pro-gunners (group) states that "guns aren't the problem, people are. People would still kill with our without guns." and then it rolls on from there a billion different directions with each group sticking to it's baseline theme. This brings me to my 3rd point: Sectarianism. "People" (speaking about humankind in general), are personally vested in and polarized to an opinion to which they couple it with expectations on themselves and on others.

The degree to which one is personally vested in and polarized to an opinion to which they couple it with expectations on themselves and on others about anything depends completely upon the person and where they are on their own path. Sometimes it's about a belief (faith), a system (religion), "things" like guns, sports teams, actions like abortion, etc. Humankind likes what is alike and does not like what is not. If person A likes X and does not like Y, then they will tend to associate with people who like X and not Y. If their life is a pegboard and X = round holes and Y = square holes, they want all X, Y will bother them. Again, to what degree Y bothers them depends upon the person and where they are on their path.

Humankind likes systems. They like things that are alike. People of a certain socio-economical and/or political class or educational level tend to congregate with those like them. People like symmetry. they want to like people who are like them. When you interview for a job, mimic the interviewer, not exactly, but similar gestures, mannerisms, dressing style, etc.

This 3rd point is broad and vast with many avenues and areas in which one could easily drill down ad nasuem (like interviewing for a job) to show how like attracts like, systems, sectarianism, etc. and hopefully I've made my point. I've tried to avoid going into specifics because it would cause some people to bristle and they would focus on the messenger and not the message because their ego would feel "attacked".

So long-winded as I am, my finally part of this point is yes, of course people are going to get into their snits over "A is X and B is Y". It's human nature.You're merely pointing that out, and I'm merely explaining it. We agree. (even if we don't agree at all, or to some degree, I'm ok with that. It doesn't matter to me. My opinion does not negate or validate the opinion of another, just as theirs is to mine.) What one needs to do is to transcend their egoic mind as much as possible. It can't be done completely, but it can be done. there are those who can discuss hot-button topics like religion or a baloney sandwich with the same level of personal vestment and polarization; but most people cannot.

[breadstain]

my finally part of this point is yes, of course people are going to get into their snits over "A is X and B is Y". It's human nature.You're merely pointing that out, and I'm merely explaining it.

I understand this fact. What you said in your last post is true. However, such radical talk and radical actions- if it could be labeled as such- are indicative of a larger problem within the country. And, for another example, we on the right often hear from those on the left, "We won. Our side and our candidate won. Your side lost. Get over it." No one can say that they haven't heard this statement (if you haven't, you have done a fine job of staying clear of topics which are of no interest to you!). It's all fine and dandy in the company of friends but it's not always contained to friendly teasing amongst friends. Clearly, lines are being drawn. I do believe that it is a sign of end-of-the-road frustration beginning to manifest in small pockets of either of those groups, "a for x" and "b for y." I just think it would be unwise to descredit what some people feel as lunacy and something to be overlooked. It may take years, but it could be a sign of what's to come and history would back me up on this.

What could be the point of no return? Perhaps when both sides would rather be permanently done with the other.

Sorry guys if you don't like me bringing this up. It's just an interesting topic, so I thought I'd give it a whirl and try encourage intelligent conversation.

[XDM45]

I understand this fact. What you said in your last post is true. However, such radical talk and radical actions- if it could be labeled as such- are indicative of a larger problem within the country. And, for another example, we on the right often hear from those on the left, "We won. Our side and our candidate won. Your side lost. Get over it." No one can say that they haven't heard this statement (if you haven't, you have done a fine job of staying clear of topics which are of no interest to you!). It's all fine and dandy in the company of friends but it's not always contained to friendly teasing amongst friends. Clearly, lines are being drawn. I do believe that it is a sign of end-of-the-road frustration beginning to manifest in small pockets of either of those groups, "a for x" and "b for y." I just think it would be unwise to descredit what some people feel as lunacy and something to be overlooked. It may take years, but it could be a sign of what's to come and history would back me up on this.

What could be the point of no return? Perhaps when both sides would rather be permanently done with the other.

Sorry guys if you don't like me bringing this up. It's just an interesting topic, so I thought I'd give it a whirl and try encourage intelligent conversation.

....and I think you and I are in total agreement. The ONE difference I would change in the above is the problem is more than just with this country, it's with humankind. The USA isn't the only ones dealing with secession at the moment, Spain is going through it, Quebec wants to depart from Canada, etc, but these are just symptoms of the true disease which is at the core of humankind.

[Heffay]

We're "dealing" with secession?

[XDM45]

We're "dealing" with secession?

Choice of words. Call it what you want. dealing with it, looking at it, petitioning for it, whatever term floats one's happy boat.

[infidel]

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 ... m=facebook