Different perspective on training?

Gun related chat that doesn't fit in another forum

Re: Different perspective on training?

Postby Larry.Y on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:34 am

homerange wrote:I am relatively new to shooting, having acquired my first rifle 3 years ago and first handgun this year. I have taken a few different training courses: 2-day workshop format, conceal carry, and one:one. I have been continuously seeking out training options, talking to various instructors, but have been overall disappointed with the options, particularly for beginners like myself.

What I see out there is basically two options when it comes to gun training:
1) One-day classes, usually geared for introductory level topics
2) Multi-day workshops, costing thousands of dollars plus ammo plus travel

With both formats, there is no sustained training--it's a one time thing. That is a huge disadvantage.

On the other hand, I hold a second-degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. My training consisted of several years of 2-3 practice sessions each week with an expert instructor. New techniques were introduced alongside old techniques being continuously practiced. We had belts (white, yellow, green...) corresponding to the proficiency achieved in certain aspects of the martial art. We studied as a group but it was ultimately up to the instructor to determine one's readiness to advance to higher levels. I paid handsomely for this training, fwiw, and it was well worth it.

I am wondering, why can't I find this equivalent in firearms training? Why can't I find any sustained training classes with predetermined ciriculum that lasts months (or years), not hours? As for me, martial arts training format was extremely effective, and even though I haven't entered a dojo in several years, my defensive techniques are still ever-present and can be relied upon if need be.

Appreciate your feedback.


I am the CEO of Sealed Mindset.

This is exactly what we have put together with our Daily Defensive Shooting membership, which I will explain below.

Just because we have been in the news lately for our "Navy SEAL Adventure" some of you assume that is all we do. You couldn't be more wrong. We have close to 200 classes or events a month that have nothing to do with "pretending to be a Navy SEAL". That event was specifically designed to fulfill 3 goals in this order of importance: 1. Give people an opportunity to experience what it is like to be a SEAL, 2. Give people a greater understanding of what our US soldiers sacrifice on a daily basis, 3. Teach beginners the fundamentals of shooting a modern sporting rifle and basic room entry techniques. This "edutainment" event represents a very small part of our offer.

Our Daily Defensive Shooting (DDS) Membership allows you unlimited access to over 50 1.5 hour defensive handgun and rifle training sessions every month for $189 per month with no commitment past the next month. On top of the classes your payment includes all equipment (firearms, holsters, eyes, ears, targets, Simmunition guns) and ammunition.

The DDS system is broken into 11 Levels of Defensive Handgun and 8 levels of Defensive Carbine. Each level (past the first) consists of 8 to 10 different conditioning sessions that are individually complete and non-progressive. Each level ends with an objective test that has 3 parts: written knowledge test, dry and live fire skills test, and live scenarios (with simmunitions). You are invited to test after you have demonstrated proficiency in each of the separate skills. Each class has programmed multimedia presentations and programmed drills and skills. The earlier levels by the nature of the material are more dry fire (with SIRT laser training pistols and AR15 bolts) than live fire. The classes are controlled by online scheduling and are restricted to 10 students. We average a 7 to 1 student to teacher ratio.

To give you an idea of the content covered, here is an overview of the Defensive Handgun levels.

Level 1 - Shooting Fundamentals
Form and function of a Semi-auto handgun / field strip / function check
Shooting Fundamentals
Never Unarmed (our version of basic functional empty handed skills) - startle response, open palm heel strikes
Live fire range

Level 2 - Weapons Presentation
Deterrence with a firearm
Alternative Carry Positions / multiple targets and transitions - inside 45 degrees
Draw / weapons presentation
Live Fire
Never Unarmed 2 - Slap/Hook, elbows
Covered Draw / draw with deterrence
Scenarios - simmunition
Live fire

Level 3 - Running the Gun
Reload - emergency and tactical
Malfunctions - soft and hard
Live Fire
Never Unarmed 3 - Tackle Defense - head control, clinch defense - front, back, side
Multiple targets and transitions - outside of 45 degrees to 180 degrees
Scenarios - simmunition Man on Man Stress Drills

Level 4 - Retention
High retention shooting / draw to high retention - target inside 16' outside 6'
Deep retention shooting / draw to deep retention - target inside 6'
Never Unarmed 4 - Weapons Strikes 4 types (1 hand, 2 hand, infinity whip, snake bite)
Multiple Targets and transitions in retention positions
Flow from Full extension to high retention and deterrence
Flow from Deep retention to high retention and full extension and deterrence
Live Fire
Scenarios - simmunition multiple threats at different distances
High retention - reloads, malfunctions
Deep retention - Reloads, malfunctions

Out of concern for time I will abbreviate the following levels but I assume you will get the main point.

Level 5 - 1 handed shooting - Strong hand
Shooting fundamentals
Draw
1 handed reloads, soft and hard malfunctions
Never Unarmed 5 - Falls and ground defense


Level 6 - 1 handed shooting - Support hand
Shooting fundamentals
Draw
1 handed reloads, soft and hard malfunctions
Never Unarmed 6 - Throws 3 types

Level 7 - Low light shooting
Weapons lights
Handheld
Draw, reloads, malfunctions, retentions
Never Unarmed 7 - Stick work (flashlight)

After Level 7 we transition from Skills based classes to Application based classes. In the application based classes the student know and can execute under pressure all of the skills necessary to use a handgun defensively. At this point we transition to teaching applicable tactics for defensive movement. For example you are in the mall with your wife she is in a different story you hear gun fire how do you more to her defensively? Or you are in Starbucks and there is gunfire in the parking lot out front how do you move out of the back door to safety defensively?

Level 8 - Rooms
Level 9 - Hallways and Stairs
Level 10 - Exterior Movement
Level 11 - Coordinated Movement

We are currently running a similar level system for modern sporting rifles called Defensive Carbine with 3 1.5 hour classes a week.

We have been running these Daily Defensive Shooting classes for over a year and a half. We have close to 10 students that are currently working on Level 4 handgun and Level 2 defensive carbine. The average student spends 1.5 to 3 hours with us a week and progresses steadily.

This type of training is completely unique to Sealed Mindset. We have been working on the curriculum for close to 10 years with a great team of people. No one else has implemented a system like this because of the cost and complexity. We have found that the application of a proven model represented by the martial arts combined with years of firearms experience through multiple experts has resulted in a system that is fun and works. The other limitation is finding a training venue that can support this type and volume of training. I couldn't find one so I built it. Over 10,000 sqft of dedicated training space that I designed to support this training system. That is an important distinction the space was designed to fit the training not the training to fit the space. That can be seen in our live range that allows 270 degree shooting in low light while moving after cross drawing. There is no where else in the state you can do that except outside on private land.

If you want to go to the range and shoot 1000s of rounds, this style of training is not for you. I have shot over a million rounds in my career as a SEAL and I know what that training results in. I have found that extensive dry fire work, with laser based feedback and realistic trigger mechanics, accomplished through the SIRT training pistols, combined with very purposeful live fire, and most importantly many realistic programmed live scenarios with simmunitions, results in a student with not only the physical skills but also the mental conditioned responses. Those conditioned responses are critical to surviving a critical incident when your body and mind are suffering from the physiological effects of adrenalin.

If you are still reading down here, thanks for taking the time and as usual if you are interested stop by Sealed Mindset in New Hope. You are welcome to survey any of our classes free of charge. If you are an advanced student tell us and we will put you into one of our advanced classes to see first hand what we do.

If you disagree with anything I have written here feel free to contact me directly as I am always interested in critical feedback.
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Re: Different perspective on training?

Postby river_boater on Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:52 am

Whatever. Will you be screening "Oh Dark Thirty" as a training film as well?
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Re: Different perspective on training?

Postby Evad on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:11 am

XDM45 wrote:[You can secure a network (not 100%, as nothing is ever 100% secure



Not true! Keep the users off it, don't connect to anything external and you can have a secure network :lol:
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Different perspective on training?

Postby GunClasses.Net on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:21 am

Evad wrote:
XDM45 wrote:[You can secure a network (not 100%, as nothing is ever 100% secure



Not true! Keep the users off it, don't connect to anything external and you can have a secure network :lol:


PBS had a show on not too long ago with a well-known hacker guy who, for a demonstration on the show, sent a malicious code into a car's computer via its embedded cell phone. Using that code, he was able to make the car's brakes lock up on command, wirelessly, causing the car to lose control. A bit creepy?

The same show described how Nike had to pull some of its shoes off the market. They were GPS-enabled so a runner could track her workout. Yeah - big OOPS... a hacker used that to stalk someone.

My FAVORITE commercial is the Xfinity home 'security'/automation ad. Yes, America - let's put cameras and microphones throughout your house, hook up control of your lights and appliances online, open your garage door over the internet, unlock your doors... gosh, why not just call it "hacker heaven"...

But I think we're a long way from Kansas now, in this thread; this discussion is not related to the OP anymore.

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Different perspective on training?

Postby Snowgun on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:27 am

Competition (with associated dry fire activities)can GREATLY accelerate your gun handling and shooting ability since you are in an atmosphere where you push your limits, watch others, get feedback, and can discuss skills. There is a reason the military brings in grandmasters to teach at least the shooting skills portion of training.

You will have to get the tactical ninja and situational awareness skills elsewhere, but at least you will be able to run a gun with the best of them.
Last edited by Snowgun on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Different perspective on training?

Postby Evad on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:28 am

GunClasses.Net wrote:
Evad wrote:
XDM45 wrote:[You can secure a network (not 100%, as nothing is ever 100% secure



Not true! Keep the users off it, don't connect to anything external and you can have a secure network :lol:


PBS had a show on not too long ago with a well-known hacker guy who, for a demonstration on the show, sent a malicious code into a car's computer via its embedded cell phone. Using that code, he was able to make the car's brakes lock up on command, wirelessly, causing the car to lose control. A bit creepy?

The same show described how Nike had to pull some of its shoes off the market. They were GPS-enabled so a runner could track her workout. Yeah - big OOPS... a hacker used that to stalk someone.

My FAVORITE commercial is the Xfinity home 'security'/automation ad. Yes, America - let's put cameras and microphones throughout your house, hook up control of your lights and appliances online, open your garage door over the internet, unlock your doors... gosh, why not just call it "hacker heaven"...

But I think we're a long way from Kansas now, in this thread; this discussion is not related to the OP anymore.

Sent from my Tardis using Tapatalk HD


No where near Kansas...I just had to, sorry. I have to look stuff up from your post, so I did get something good here :)
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Re: Different perspective on training?

Postby promod1385 on Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:54 pm

Snowgun wrote:Competition (with associated dry fire activities)can GREATLY accelerate your gun handling and shooting ability since you are in an atmosphere where you push your limits, watch others, get feedback, and can discuss skills. There is a reason the military brings in grandmasters to teach at least the shooting skills portion of training.

You will have to get the tactical ninja and situational awareness skills elsewhere, but at least you will be able to run a gun with the best of them.



Agreed! I use my personal livefire training sessions to practice drawing from concealment and all the other EDC/ carry ninja moves. Most of my USPSA training is done via dryfire.
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Re: Different perspective on training?

Postby brent fox on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:07 am

Larry Y seems to have a great program, I will likely go visit myself (when I have free time and money = not yet :( !)
Especially impressive is incorporating unarmed skills along with the incremental training sessions.
Not sure what the problem is with River_Boater - "Whatever" comment? Sealed Mindset has a unique facility to offer what no one else here can.

Have I ever mentioned that everyone here should learn some combatives-unarmed skills ;) ?
Yeah, I know, more than once.
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I love online school: I can attend class NAKED and CARRYING A GUN!
OK, the holster chaffs my skin, I’ll take it off :)
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