Maybe I have this all wrong..........

View · by **John S.** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:56 pm

In order to buy a gun at a gun show, don't you need at least a PPT or PTC? If so. what's the big deal background check done, WTF? :evil:

View · by **Heffay** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:58 pm

John S. wrote:In order to buy a gun at a gun show, don't you need at least a PPT or PTC? If so. what's the big deal background check done, WTF?

You can do face to face sales there. The other attendees that run around with a sign that says "M1 Garand" for sale, which is slung over their shoulder? I think that is what they are talking about.

View · by **xd ED** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:00 pm

Private sales are just that regardless of where they take place; an agreement between 2 private parties. A purchase from a dealer ( in MN) requires a permit to purchase/ carry, & background check, regardless of where that sale takes place.

View · by **photogpat** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:03 pm

The opposition is against "private sales" between two citizens. The only requirement (in MN anyways) is that you may not knowingly sell to a prohibited person, nor if you suspect that firearm will be used for a crime.

If I have a shotgun and my brother wants to buy it - some believe we should have to drive to a dealer and have the dealer run the transaction through the FBI Background Check System (referred to as NICS) with my brother then having to complete a 4473 and the dealer putting the firearm serial # into his books, then taking it back out again as a transfer. Additional time and cost which will serve no real purpose. Plus, unless they include some form of National registration, how can they tell if a "private sale" has even taken place. Another point, if background checks are mandated, watch for dealers to raise their background check fees exorbitantly as well.

View · by **ex-LT** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:47 pm

What Ed and Pat said. The "Gun Show Loophole" is actually a misnomer. What the antis are actually trying to ban is face-to-face sales between private parties. Regardless of whether the transaction takes place in a brick-and-mortar shop; the ffl's home; or at a gun show, the ffl is required to run the transaction through NICS. IIRC, the only exception to that rule is if a dealer sells a gun from his (or her) own private collection.

View · by **John S.** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm

Why don't they just make it so the buyer either shows a PTP or PTC then the background checks are good to go..................end of the f'n argument! :evil:

View · by **onebohemian** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm

I don't recall hearing that any of the monsters that have committed the recent atrocities obtained access to the guns they used by getting around NICS via private purchases. This is why all the time spent on having more background checks is not time well spent. I wish the NRA or other gun-rights groups would do the research and point this out as it would be more persuasive than just pounding one's fist on the table and saying witout explanation that we (NRA) are against more checks.

View · by **Heffay** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:24 pm

John S. wrote:Why don't they just make it so the buyer either shows a PTP or PTC then the background checks are good to go..................end of the f'n argument!

A lot of people here would say that is infringing on their rights. :roll:

View · by **xd ED** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:41 pm

John S. wrote:Why don't they just make it so the buyer either shows a PTP or PTC then the background checks are good to go..................end of the f'n argument!

The issue would be: how to prove or record a permit, or background check took place without some sort of documentation tying the firearm to one or more of the parties; likely both. (aka registration)

View · by **ktech** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:47 pm

Heffay wrote:
John S. wrote:Why don't they just make it so the buyer either shows a PTP or PTC then the background checks are good to go..................end of the f'n argument!

A lot of people here would say that is infringing on their rights.

I've heard two reasonable arguments against background checks or permit requirements for every firearm transfer.
First: how would something like that be enforced without a registry?
Second: if you want to transfer a firearm to a close friend or relative, and a permit is required, how do you do that? Also: what happens to a firearm when the owner dies if no immediate family have permits?

Thoughts?

ETA: What Ed said.

View · by **John S.** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:34 pm

xd ED wrote:
John S. wrote:Why don't they just make it so the buyer either shows a PTP or PTC then the background checks are good to go..................end of the f'n argument!

The issue would be: how to prove or record a permit, or background check took place without some sort of documentation tying the firearm to one or more of the parties; likely both. (aka registration)

This would leave the burden of proof on the anti's wouldn't it?

View · by **xd ED** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:51 pm

I think the burden would be on the last guy the gun was traced to.

View · by **river_boater** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:22 pm

How many people here have ever sold a gun to someone you didn't know and not ask for a PCP or PTP?

I'm thinking zero.

View · by **maddhunter** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:31 pm

I have been told by vendors at various gun shows, ie Brooklynn Park,Anoka Armory, etc, etc, that up to 50 per cent of vendors selling arms at these shows are not FFL dealers. They supposedly circumvent the law(loophole) because they are selling from a private stock of firearms. Anyone else have any info regarding this practice?

View · by **RangerTim** on Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:42 pm

California already has passed laws to end the gunshow "loophole." Private parties wishing to sell firearms must go to a dealer, pay the $35 DROS fee, and wait the 10 day waiting period. The only negative side is the waiting period. I would not oppose private sales needing to go through a dealer as long as its still purchase, background, and walk like it is with current laws in MN. I don't think too many people would object either.