Carbine pistols: AR vs AK

[Lumpy]

To add to the endless AR-15 vs AK-47 debate, I was wondering how the short-barreled pistol versions compare. I would have thought that the pistol versions would be mostly used at fairly short range, and so the larger and heavier 7.62x39 bullet would count for more than the higher muzzle velocity of the 5.56. But there are plenty of AR pistols out there so someone likes them. I could see the 5.56 being preferable against body armor, so AR pistols might be like an oversized PDW.

[UnaStamus]

The real question is what do you want to do with it?

The "carbine pistol" is a commercial range toy first and foremost. They can do most of what you want them to do, be it home defense or hunting or impressing the ladies at the local VFW, albeit with much less efficiency, but the primary function has always been in the recreational department. When Sig got their brace approved for shoulder fire, that obviously caused a massive boom in carbine pistol development and sales as people had a loophole to the NFA SBR process.

While not applicable to ARs, the AK platform is a bit more "static" in how it is designed. SBRing an AK is not an easy task like it is with an AR where you just swap out uppers or swap out barrels. Guns like the Draco pistol have been an easy way to get an SBR type weapon in your hands, and then get the NFA tax stamp to make it into an SBR. Buying a registered Draco SBR from the manufacture is extremely difficult in the US.

In terms of ballistics, the 5.56/.223 is capable of being fired in any barrel length, but the ballistics take a massive hit below the 10" barrel mark. You have to define the needs of the weapon and juxtapose that with the barrel length you intend to use. If you are using a 7.5" or 8" barrel, you are going to need to use very light bullets in the 40-50gr class.

The 7.62x39 is a lot more tolerant to shorter barrel lengths, as it is a bigger cartridge with a larger diameter throughout that allows for a faster powder burn. The heavier bullet also carries more energy downrange for longer distance, which is a positive. It's because of this as to why the .300BLK was developed- a cartridge that performed as good as or better than the 7.62x39 out of a super short 8-9" barrel, could be suppressed easily, and that was reliable with the AR operating system.

Regardless of what you select, keep in mind that super-short SBRs have a substantial amount of concussion when fired. There are muzzle devices that mitigate this, but they don't eliminate it. The shorter the barrel, the greater the concussion.

[bensdad]

The "carbine pistol" is a commercial range toy

That's all the answer anybody really needs. I've shot a few of both. Expensive range toys... nothing more. Pretty awesome tutorial on the importance of sight radius and anchor points for achieving accuracy.

[Erud]

A carbine is a short rifle, a pistol is a pistol.

[Snakeman721]

The "carbine pistol" is a commercial range toy

That's all the answer anybody really needs. I've shot a few of both. Expensive range toys... nothing more. Pretty awesome tutorial on the importance of sight radius and anchor points for achieving accuracy.

Having seen plenty of both in use at the range, I would have to agree that it's nothing more than a toy that is difficult to shoot accurately. To date, nobody I've seen has actually shot them as a "pistol"...that is to say, one handed with arm extended. Most everyone had the Sig brace or padding on the buffer tube (AR) and it was being used as a "rifle" with people bringing them up to their cheek to use the sights. And yeah, both are quite louder than their long barrel rifle cousins.

[Tronster]

Is there a caliber in between 5.56/7.62 and 9mm that would be effective in a PDW type weapon? More punch than 9mm, but less blast than the rifle calibers meant for longer barrels, something that bridges the gap between rifle and pistol calibers?

[yuppiejr]

300 BLK and 6.8 SPC are both fairly efficient in short barreled configurations.

[carbide]

The only AR15 I own, the first I've built, is in a pistol configuration solely because of the Sig brace. While waiting for a Sig brace, I used a single point sling and would "tighten up" the rifle, cough, pistol, cough, by pulling it tight against my body. It was far more accurate, however, it is still essentially a novelty. With the Sig brace installed as designed, it shot like a pistol pretty well. When it wasn't "illegal" to shoulder a SIG brace, it shot like a dream and was lots of fun!

Due to the current climate around the Sig brace, I am selling my AR15 Pistol. I may convert it a full length rifle, which is perfectly legal per NFA (while you rifle guys can't switch to a pistol, the pistol guys can switcheroo). I want to jump on the latest craze, retardedly expensive "lightweight" ARs

Anyone looking for an AR pistol?

[Ghost]

Having seen plenty of both in use at the range, I would have to agree that it's nothing more than a toy that is difficult to shoot accurately.

Somebody needs a laser

[Snakeman721]

Having seen plenty of both in use at the range, I would have to agree that it's nothing more than a toy that is difficult to shoot accurately.

Somebody needs a laser

I've seen some with lasers, but still....if you hold them as designed (NOT welded to your cheek by a Sig brace or buffer tube) it's kinda hard to keep steady with 5-6 pounds at arms length.

[Ghost]

Having seen plenty of both in use at the range, I would have to agree that it's nothing more than a toy that is difficult to shoot accurately.

Somebody needs a laser

I've seen some with lasers, but still....if you hold them as designed (NOT welded to your cheek by a Sig brace or buffer tube) it's kinda hard to keep steady with 5-6 pounds at arms length.

Nothing saying that holding the buffer tube to your shoulder is wrong or not as designed.

(Not me)


Then there's super human Jerry

[bnelson06]

That guy is amazing. I have a AR pistol in 300Blk with a 10" barrel, it is a bit louder than my carbine but size wise it is much easier to carry and with a red dot just as easy to shoot.