Gun Fight Rules

[LarryP]

Gunfight Rules

In a gunfight, the most important rule is ..... HAVE A GUN!

Here is some shooting advice from various Concealed Carry Instructors. If you own a gun, you will appreciate these rules. If not, you should get one and learn how to use it -- and learn the rules:

RULES:

A -- Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

B -- It’s always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

C -- Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

D -- Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arm’s length.

E -- Never say "I've got a gun". If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear
should be the safety clicking off.

F -- The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357
magnum is 1400 feet per second.

G -- The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win. A gunfight is a deadly struggle.
There is no such thing as a fair fight, so cheat if necessary.

H -- Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your
own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, ‘cause it will be empty.

I -- If you're in a gun fight: If you're not shooting, you should be loading. If you're not
loading, you should be moving. If you're not moving, you're dead.

J -- In a life and death situation, do something. It may be wrong, but do something!

K -- If you carry a gun, people may call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what
do you have to be paranoid about?

L -- You can say 'stop' or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s
head is pretty much a universal language.

M -- Never leave an enemy behind. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. If you end up in
court, yours will be the only testimony.

N -- You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

If you believe in the 2nd Amendment, forward this to others you know who also believe.

And always remember this quote from America's premier Founding Father:

"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading".
- Thomas Jefferson

[jshuberg]

Quite a few of those indicate a reckless and dangerous view of firearms and self defense. It makes for a cute little read to get a chuckle, but shouldn't be taken very seriously.


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[Ghost]

Quite a few of those indicate a reckless and dangerous view of firearms and self defense. It makes for a cute little read to get a chuckle, but shouldn't be taken very seriously.

Although I agree with you I am not an instructor, please elaborate your response in order to educate the masses.

[jshuberg]

B -- It's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

This kind of thinking can get a person in trouble, especially when posted online. A person should never nonchalantly discuss the killing of another human being like this. Think of how this could look to a potential juror.

D -- Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arm's length.

This is wrong for two reasons. 1) The generally accepted distance at which a person with a contact weapon presents an immediate risk of death or great bodily hard is 21-25 feet, not arms distance. 2) Deadly force can only be used when all conditions necessary for self defense are met. Just because something is threatening you, even inside of arms distance does not necessarily justify use of deadly force. Generally speaking you cannot legally shoot someone for simply punching you in the face. The threat has to be great bodily harm or death. Great bodily harm being a permanent loss of function or disfigurement of a body part.

E -- Never say "I've got a gun". If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

This is just bull$hit bravado. Of course you can tell someone you're armed, in fact you should yell it at the top of your lungs to attract as much attention as possible. Yelling 'get back' or 'I have a gun', or anything else that puts an end to the threat without escalation is a good thing. At this point, you haven't done anything that could be construed as breaking the law. The next level of escalation would be to draw your weapon and point it at them. Doing so is lawful under a justified self defense scenario, but is otherwise considered to be a 2nd degree assault. There are also a number of less-lethal means to stop a threat - taser, pepper spray, etc. The point is that there should be more than one tool in your tool belt for stopping a threat. If drawing and shooting is most appropriate under the circumstance, you should not hesitate. However, most violent encounters can be ended simply by verbalizing or defensive display of a firearm. Also, unless you train on it regularly, a pistol with an external manual safety doesn't make a good carry pistol IMHO.

F -- The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 magnum is 1400 feet per second.

Again, bull$hit bravado that can be used against you as evidence that you do not value life, and that your'e just waiting for the opportunity to shoot someone.

H -- Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, 'cause it will be empty.

More bull$hit bravado. You are legally responsible for every bullet that leaves your gun. If you miss and injure someone, your legally liable for it. Also, any rounds fired after the threat has ended are no longer legally justified. A "wall of bullets" is a reckless way of thinking about the proper use of deadly force.

I -- If you're in a gun fight: If you're not shooting, you should be loading. If you're not loading, you should be moving. If you're not moving, you're dead.

This I agree with, provided you've been properly trained. If you only go to the range a handful of times a year, and don't take any defensive classes, you're not going to be able to perform anywhere near this level. A person needs to know their skill level, and what they can and can't do under stress. Having a gun doesn't make a person armed anymore than having a paint brush makes you an artist. It's about skill, not hardware.

L -- You can say 'stop' or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's head is pretty much a universal language.

Yet even more bull$hit bravado. If yelling stop works, it's the best way to stop a threat. Most bad guys are looking for an easy target, and by looking them straight in the eye and yelling 'stop', and demonstrating that you are not an easy victim, there's a good chance they'll tuck tail and run. Again, pointing a gun at someone is a 2nd degree assault, and must be justified by the circumstance. If you're wrong, you'll be reevaluating your bravado in prison.

M -- Never leave an enemy behind. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. If you end up in court, yours will be the only testimony.

This is worse than bull$hit bravado. This indicates that your intent is to murder someone. You should shoot for one and only one reason - to stop the threat. If you shoot to kill, you are a murderer. A statement like this will severely compromise your defense as to your intent. I advise people to completely eliminate the word 'kill' from their vocabulary. Simply using the word 'kill' can be the difference between obvious self defense, and a lengthy and expensive legal process that could result in prison time. These are the words of a psychopath, not of a law-abiding gun owner. Anyone who thinks like this needs to either have their thinking completely readjusted, or they should seriously consider getting rid of their guns for their own safety and the safety of others.


For the record, I know that LarryP just copy-pasted this from somewhere as a non-serious thing, so my criticism isn't with him in any way. But there are those out there who might read this and think that this is how to think about or approach the topic of deadly force in self defense. It's not. A person needs to be able to survive a lethal force encounter physically, legally, psychologically, emotionally and spiritually. For those who have been so unfortunate to have to take someones life in self defense, it is the most significant and tragic event they will ever experience in their lives. It needs to be approached with the most somber and respectful attitude.

Despite the claim, no competent carry instructor would ever teach a student anything on that list.

[LePetomane]

John, Thank you for your thoughts on the issue.

[usnret]

This probably should have been posted in the lighter side area and not here. I have seen other lists like this concerning fighting in a war or conflict.It is pretty much for humor, so LIGHTEN UP!

[cobb]

Gun Fight Rules, funny topic.
There are no rules other than survive and I think it was Clint Smith that said if you are fighting fair, your tactics suck.

[wasfuzz]

I'm not paid to fight fair, only to win!!!

[goalie]

I have posted my rules for caring a gun before, but here they are again:

1. Walk away.
2. If you can't walk away, run away.
3. If you can't run away, you didn't walk away soon enough.
4. If you have to shoot, shoot until the threat stops or you are out of ammo. Then run away and call the cops.
5. STFU and lawyer up.


Not nearly as macho as the original post, I know, but I would prefer to not get into anymore gunfights in my life. YMMV

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[Vlad]

If i may be bold enough to add.

Don't do stupid things with stupid people in stupid places...

[westhope]

The only gunfight you win is the one you avoid.

[UnaStamus]

Fully support the assertion that the number 1 rule of a gun fight is to never get in one. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but most times it's foreseeable and preventable. Situational awareness, ability to think and a cool head are far more important tools than how confident you feel about being righteous. I'm willing to bet that George Zimmerman wishes he had been much more level-headed and reserved.

[UnaStamus]

Gunfight Rules

In a gunfight, the most important rule...HAVE A GUN

Most important rule...DON'T GET IN ONE

A -- Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

Divorce lawyer, thieves, etc. Lots of things threaten your gun ownership. At the very least lock them up.

B -- It's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I'd rather be dead than go to prison. I also don't really trust modern society to think critically or intelligently anymore. Call me a pessimist... Not saying I wouldn't shoot if I had to, but when I do there will be no doubt.

C -- Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

No, it's both. Police have on numerous occasions shot suspects to preserve the life of others. Active shooters, hostage takers, domestic terrorists, etc. Comments like this attempt to make people cognizant of their own responsibility to protect themselves, but they serve to expand the rift between police and citizens. You might as well just say "cops don't care about you", which is very much inaccurate.

D -- Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arm's length.

I won't beat the reactionary distance horse, as it's a subjectively applicable concept. All I will say is that in MN you have a duty to retreat. Be careful about how you react before you make a visible concerted effort to back away or "retreat". A defensive shove could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the assailant, and you likely have no idea who you are going to be fighting. Having a mentality that you will stand your ground will also get you hurt if you don't have the skills or abilities to back it up.

E -- Never say "I've got a gun". If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

Imagine if a witness was being interviewed after you shot some thug. The witness says to the investigator, "I heard the guy with the gun yell loudly 'get away, I have a gun! I don't want to shoot you!' and the other guy just kept coming at him". I'm sure that would look much better in front of a jury than the witness saying "I saw the guy with gun just pull out his gun and shoot the other guy. The other guys was just standing there."

F -- The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 magnum is 1400 feet per second.

Assuming it's legal to shoot. Average response time is also dependent upon the situation and the jurisdiction. You also have to consider whether you are intending to call 911 after retreating, or intending to call 911 while foolishly holding your ground. Sometimes perhaps exercising the better part of valor and retreating is the ideal THIRD OPTION that nobody talks about.

G -- The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win. A gunfight is a deadly struggle.
There is no such thing as a fair fight, so cheat if necessary.

Jeff Cooper was very well known for saying that if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. He also said this to the FBI during a shooting event where he embarassed their better shooters. He was pointing out that winning a gunfight required the winner to be willing to do whatever is necessary to get hits on target while not getting hit themselves. Jeff Cooper was also a very big advocate of conflict avoidance and situational awareness, and how the most important thing was not getting into a gunfight.

H -- Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your
own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, because it will be empty.

I very much agree with this, but not because people should be doing magdumps. People tend to have a "square range" mentality they will serve up a couple shots and then take themselves out of the fight to assess the target and admire their shots. The ideal response is to shoot until the threat stops, and to use an adequate load that will do what you want it too. You can lay down a wall of bullets, but if you're shooting .25ACP at someone who is wearing body armor, it's time to stop shooting harder and try shooting smarter. You should know concepts like failure drills and non-standard response shooting.

I -- If you're in a gun fight: If you're not shooting, you should be loading. If you're not
loading, you should be moving. If you're not moving, you're dead.

Agreed, but make sure that you can shoot while moving. Most people practice shooting on the move from slow pace. How many actually practice it at the speed they'd likely be moving?

J -- In a life and death situation, do something. It may be wrong, but do something!

Don't be the guy that didn't plan ahead. Have a plan to react to every situation. Know where every exit is, know who are the regulars in an area and how appears out of place, know what your own capabilities and limitations are. Put yourself into a position where you can react based on pre-developed mindset or knowledge. If you do enough learning, you can quickly and effectively think your way through all situations by putting similar concepts together to form a working strategy. Understand that if you are willing to do something wrong, you haven't been doing enough planning and preparation.

K -- If you carry a gun, people may call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what
do you have to be paranoid about?

Unknown dangers. You can't defend yourself against unknown/unseen dangers. a gun doesn't make you invincible.

L -- You can say 'stop' or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's
head is pretty much a universal language.

What about when you don't have the legal ability to shoot them?

M -- Never leave an enemy behind. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. If you end up in
court, yours will be the only testimony.

What about in today's world of cell phone video and public and private serveillance video systems? Good luck explaining your story if it doesn't match exactly 100% to the video, even if that video is only a snippet that didn't capture the whole incident.

N -- You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

If you have to be told to save your family, you're a lost cause. That said, saving your life or familiy is a far better mindset to have than standing your ground to a bad guy for reasons of bravado.

[Holland&Holland]

Fully support the assertion that the number 1 rule of a gun fight is to never get in one. Sometimes it's unavoidable, but most times it's foreseeable and preventable. Situational awareness, ability to think and a cool head are far more important tools than how confident you feel about being righteous. I'm willing to bet that George Zimmerman wishes he had been much more level-headed and reserved.

I bet not. Have you seen the situations he has put himself in post trayvon?

[goalie]

Gunfight Rules

In a gunfight, the most important rule...HAVE A GUN

Most important rule...DON'T GET IN ONE

A -- Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

Divorce lawyer, thieves, etc. Lots of things threaten your gun ownership. At the very least lock them up.

B -- It's always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

I'd rather be dead than go to prison. I also don't really trust modern society to think critically or intelligently anymore. Call me a pessimist... Not saying I wouldn't shoot if I had to, but when I do there will be no doubt.

C -- Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

No, it's both. Police have on numerous occasions shot suspects to preserve the life of others. Active shooters, hostage takers, domestic terrorists, etc. Comments like this attempt to make people cognizant of their own responsibility to protect themselves, but they serve to expand the rift between police and citizens. You might as well just say "cops don't care about you", which is very much inaccurate.

D -- Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arm's length.

I won't beat the reactionary distance horse, as it's a subjectively applicable concept. All I will say is that in MN you have a duty to retreat. Be careful about how you react before you make a visible concerted effort to back away or "retreat". A defensive shove could be the straw that breaks the camel's back for the assailant, and you likely have no idea who you are going to be fighting. Having a mentality that you will stand your ground will also get you hurt if you don't have the skills or abilities to back it up.

E -- Never say "I've got a gun". If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

Imagine if a witness was being interviewed after you shot some thug. The witness says to the investigator, "I heard the guy with the gun yell loudly 'get away, I have a gun! I don't want to shoot you!' and the other guy just kept coming at him". I'm sure that would look much better in front of a jury than the witness saying "I saw the guy with gun just pull out his gun and shoot the other guy. The other guys was just standing there."

F -- The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes; the response time of a .357 magnum is 1400 feet per second.

Assuming it's legal to shoot. Average response time is also dependent upon the situation and the jurisdiction. You also have to consider whether you are intending to call 911 after retreating, or intending to call 911 while foolishly holding your ground. Sometimes perhaps exercising the better part of valor and retreating is the ideal THIRD OPTION that nobody talks about.

G -- The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win. A gunfight is a deadly struggle.
There is no such thing as a fair fight, so cheat if necessary.

Jeff Cooper was very well known for saying that if you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck. He also said this to the FBI during a shooting event where he embarassed their better shooters. He was pointing out that winning a gunfight required the winner to be willing to do whatever is necessary to get hits on target while not getting hit themselves. Jeff Cooper was also a very big advocate of conflict avoidance and situational awareness, and how the most important thing was not getting into a gunfight.

H -- Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets. You may get killed with your
own gun, but he'll have to beat you to death with it, because it will be empty.

I very much agree with this, but not because people should be doing magdumps. People tend to have a "square range" mentality they will serve up a couple shots and then take themselves out of the fight to assess the target and admire their shots. The ideal response is to shoot until the threat stops, and to use an adequate load that will do what you want it too. You can lay down a wall of bullets, but if you're shooting .25ACP at someone who is wearing body armor, it's time to stop shooting harder and try shooting smarter. You should know concepts like failure drills and non-standard response shooting.

I -- If you're in a gun fight: If you're not shooting, you should be loading. If you're not
loading, you should be moving. If you're not moving, you're dead.

Agreed, but make sure that you can shoot while moving. Most people practice shooting on the move from slow pace. How many actually practice it at the speed they'd likely be moving?

J -- In a life and death situation, do something. It may be wrong, but do something!

Don't be the guy that didn't plan ahead. Have a plan to react to every situation. Know where every exit is, know who are the regulars in an area and how appears out of place, know what your own capabilities and limitations are. Put yourself into a position where you can react based on pre-developed mindset or knowledge. If you do enough learning, you can quickly and effectively think your way through all situations by putting similar concepts together to form a working strategy. Understand that if you are willing to do something wrong, you haven't been doing enough planning and preparation.

K -- If you carry a gun, people may call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what
do you have to be paranoid about?

Unknown dangers. You can't defend yourself against unknown/unseen dangers. a gun doesn't make you invincible.

L -- You can say 'stop' or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone's
head is pretty much a universal language.

What about when you don't have the legal ability to shoot them?

M -- Never leave an enemy behind. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. If you end up in
court, yours will be the only testimony.

What about in today's world of cell phone video and public and private serveillance video systems? Good luck explaining your story if it doesn't match exactly 100% to the video, even if that video is only a snippet that didn't capture the whole incident.

N -- You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.

If you have to be told to save your family, you're a lost cause. That said, saving your life or familiy is a far better mindset to have than standing your ground to a bad guy for reasons of bravado.

I agree with all of it Una, but mine pretty much ends up the same and is easier to type.....