Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

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Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby Doc Harvey on Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:05 pm

I'm so friggin angry I could spit nails. Go to sight in a new red dot on my CZ Scorpion. Guy (who I've never seen before there) taps me in the shoulder and asks if I have a tax stamp for it.....No, I say, it's still a pistol (it has a buffer tube with a CAA saddle). He says "I don't think you're allowed to shoot that here, I'm going to need to go check with someone". He comes back and says "Nope, not allowed". This is a gun I've fired there (in the same configuration) multiple times before, so I'm pretty mad at this point. I go out to the desk and the guy says "how's it going?" Well, sport, it's not going so well. I say that I don't understand why I can't fire it there, etc, etc....I didn't shoulder, etc. guy says "yes you did. We saw it from here."

So I'm a pretty savvy shooter, and always obey all the laws, and certainly know the difference between an SBR and not an SBR. So now I'm (apparently) a liar as well, because I hadn't shouldered it, I wouldn't shoulder it, but THEY say I shouldered it (all of a sudden like, because the initial argument wasn't that I had shouldered it or not) and they're like "buh- bye". Wouldn't refund my range fee either (I only put 10 rounds down range).

So....I'm all done with Bills. I might have been okay if they said politely that they didn't want that gun on the line because of the buffer tube, but to treat me like an idiot and a liar was just too much.
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Postby george on Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:25 pm

So Bills employees are now ATF employees also ? Good to know. I never have liked tattle tails.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby mmcnx2 on Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:31 pm

I'm guessing if you don't have your arms extended and you rest your check on the saddle they would classify that shouldering.

Would not be surprised if other ranges raise the same concern. That recent nasty ATF letter has folks a little edgy on that setup.

Not saying they are right but they are protecting their business and honestly one guy on a rental lane it not worth the risk.
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Postby george on Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:45 pm

I don't remember seeing where it said I need to show my tax stamp to anyone who asks other than LE or ATF. I must have missed that.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby Doc Harvey on Sun Mar 20, 2016 4:56 pm

mmcnx2 wrote:
Not saying they are right but they are protecting their business and honestly one guy on a rental lane it not worth the risk.

I get that. I really do.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby UnaStamus on Sun Mar 20, 2016 5:43 pm

I once was accused of shooting aluminum case ammunition at Bills. A shooter next to me saw the silver casings and tried to get me thrown out. I had to actually explain what nickel was to range personnel. I was shooting surplus Federal HydraShok when my agency switched to the HST and we had left-over Hydrashoks.

I also had a Bill's employee tell me that Core15 and Daniel Defense were the same rifle and with DD all you were paying for was the name.

I also saw a couple cholos firing a Ruger 10/22 with a high cap banana mag rapid fire with less than half the rounds hitting the target. Nothing happened to them.

The list of Bill's GS gems goes on. I basically only go to Osseo GC now.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby unfitmother on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:11 pm

That Goody Two-Shoes needs a lesson on "united we stand, divided we fall."

His ego clearly got the best of him; he assumed you were shouldering an unregistered SBR, and decided the only way to save Bill's from an imminent ATF raid was to tattle on you. He should have given you the benefit of the doubt, and started a mature conversation with you about the recent ruling about braces.

Sounds like Bill's got caught in the middle. However, there are lots of better places to go sight in a gun.


mmcnx2 wrote:I'm guessing if you don't have your arms extended and you rest your cheek on the saddle they would classify that shouldering.

There are some nuances, but generally, as long as the end/butt of the arm brace is not pressed against one's body, one can rest their cheek on the top of the brace.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby Doc Harvey on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:32 pm

unfitmother wrote:He should have given you the benefit of the doubt, and started a mature conversation with you about the recent ruling about braces.



This. There were about 30 different ways they could have opened a polite discussion about this. I've been an excellent customer to them, purchased several guns, used the range during winter over the past 5 years, referred others to them for rentals, etc. And I get to be the recipient of a talking down to, and get to be called a liar.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby Scratch on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:38 pm

Bad news spreads fast. He shouldn't have kicked you out for that, just talked to you about it first.

I'm glad I have my own range.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby Randygmn on Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:24 pm

They are embracing and voluntarily assuming the role of law enforcement. I suppose they don't understand that is an adversarial relationship. You would figure they'd be more concerned about preventing customers from blowing their heads off on the firing line. Or do a better job stopping straw purchases upstairs. As an AR15 pistol owner with a brace, I've been there many times. I don't shoulder it, because I get the vibe that they are a bunch of narc types working there. This just confirms it. Sorry they called you a liar to your face. Thank you for sharing your outrageous experience.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby grimbeaver on Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:45 am

I'll agree. Seems ridiculous they couldn't simply have a polite conversation about it. I swore off Bills ages ago and I will leave it at that. Went to Osseo a few times but rarely do anymore as most of my friends have had bad interactions with the owner and do not want to go.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby minnesotatv on Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:21 am

What do you expect? Its Bill's.......
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby photogpat on Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:25 am

Doc Harvey wrote:I'm so friggin angry I could spit nails. Go to sight in a new red dot on my CZ Scorpion. Guy (who I've never seen before there) taps me in the shoulder and asks if I have a tax stamp for it.....No, I say, it's still a pistol (it has a buffer tube with a CAA saddle). He says "I don't think you're allowed to shoot that here, I'm going to need to go check with someone". He comes back and says "Nope, not allowed". This is a gun I've fired there (in the same configuration) multiple times before, so I'm pretty mad at this point. I go out to the desk and the guy says "how's it going?" Well, sport, it's not going so well. I say that I don't understand why I can't fire it there, etc, etc....I didn't shoulder, etc. guy says "yes you did. We saw it from here."

So I'm a pretty savvy shooter, and always obey all the laws, and certainly know the difference between an SBR and not an SBR. So now I'm (apparently) a liar as well, because I hadn't shouldered it, I wouldn't shoulder it, but THEY say I shouldered it (all of a sudden like, because the initial argument wasn't that I had shouldered it or not) and they're like "buh- bye". Wouldn't refund my range fee either (I only put 10 rounds down range).

So....I'm all done with Bills. I might have been okay if they said politely that they didn't want that gun on the line because of the buffer tube, but to treat me like an idiot and a liar was just too much.



Did you send a note to your .gov representatives or to the ATF voicing your displeasure at them putting a retailer like Bill's IN this position in the first place?
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby samginko on Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:27 am

Safety is Paramount, enforcement of tax stamp is not. This is a clear case of tiny bureaucrat flexing his muscle, because he can.
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Re: Just got kicked off the range at Bills in Robbinsdale

Postby Uffdaphil on Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:01 am

I don't even shoot my AR pistol anymore at my outdoor range if strangers are there. From even a short distance away people think I'm shouldering a cheek weld. The nosy witness will swear to god he saw what never happened. Still plenty of AR hate from fellow shooters out there.
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