Permit to Purchase at 18

View · by **TheLoneWolf** on Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:25 pm

Hello all, I'm new to the forum and new to buying guns in general and had a few questions.

Now I know that this thread has been done before, but I really need some advice. As the title sates, I am 18 and would like to apply for a permit to purchase so I can buy ar-15s and other such "assault weapons". The thing that makes me think twice is the fact that said permit also applies to handguns, which you have to be 21 to purchase from an FFL. In my quest to get a the permit, the first thing I did was go to a gun store and told the man at the counter my situation. He said to go to the local police station (in my case, the Northfield police) and ask to apply for a permit to purchase a handgun, and if they give me trouble to call him so he could explain the circumstances. That's great and all, but what happened recently really confused me.

A couple days ago, I was at a different gun store looking around when I struck up a conversation with the clerk. I told him my plans to apply for a permit to purchase, to which he told me there wasn't a chance that I could ever get one at my age. I mentioned to him that I had read the MN statutes on "Ineligible persons" and it says you must be 18 to own an "Semi-automatic military-style assault weapon", he said that's true but I couldn't get a permit to purchase until I am 21 and therefor couldn't purchase the weapon.

In an effort to clear up my confusion, I went to the police department and spoke with the assistant chief. He said that applying at 18 isn't a reason for automatic denial, BUT, I wont be able to purchase ammo for an ar-15 or such riffle... This just confused me even more, as I know that the laws say that you may posses ammo for a weapon that you can legally posses.

TLDR, I am at a loss for exactly what to do about getting this permit. Part of me says I need a lawyer, and part of me says I'm over thinking this whole thing. ANY input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

View · by **Holland&Holland** on Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:12 pm

The permit to purchase application states that you have to be 18 to purchase what minnesota determines to be an asualt style rifle. You should just go to the police station and apply.

At 18 you are allowed to posses ammo as well. Many stores will not sell you handgun ammo until you are 21, but that would not effect .223. The stipulation you state about possession of ammo for a gun you are in possession of is in reference to those under 18 as at 18 you are allowed to posses ammo period.

View · by **Randygmn** on Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:12 pm

H&H is right. Also, please stop using the term "assault rifle". It's not what you're looking to buy and you aren't old enough if you were. IMO just use the word rifle or if you need to be descriptive, modern sporting rifle is ok, too. I hate to be "that guy", but an assault rifle must be select fire. By using the term, you're conflating words that only serve the interests of gun grabbers and would be confiscators.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and good luck with your purchase. Come back with pictures!!!!

View · by **grimbeaver** on Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:36 am

Holland&Holland wrote:At 18 you are allowed to posses ammo as well. Many stores will not sell you handgun ammo until you are 21, but that would not effect .223.

This is why when you buy 22LR they (almost) always ask if it is for a handgun or rifle. If you state handgun and are under 21 the computer is going to tell the clerk that they can't sell it.

It is a little disturbing that a store clerk does not know the basic restrictions on who can buy what he is selling. Not sure I would go back to that store...

Since you said you are new a little advice that you may have not gotten yet... avoid the big box stores. The smaller local shops will have a better price 98% of the time. For the most part they are all staffed by friendly helpful people and they won't try to push a credit card or extended warranty on you with your purchase.

View · by **Holland&Holland** on Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:07 am

Randygmn wrote:H&H is right. Also, please stop using the term "assault rifle". It's not what you're looking to buy and you aren't old enough if you were. IMO just use the word rifle or if you need to be descriptive, modern sporting rifle is ok, too. I hate to be "that guy", but an assault rifle must be select fire. By using the term, you're conflating words that only serve the interests of gun grabbers and would be confiscators.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and good luck with your purchase. Come back with pictures!!!!

Technically, it is what he is looking to buy. I too have issues with the wording that is why I worded it the way I did but the permit to purchase application calls it a "semi-automatic assault rifle", so according to the state of MN it is.

I do not disagree with you that the wording is intended to serve the interests of gun grabbers and would be confiscators.

View · by **LumberZach** on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:57 am

Just remember that you already know the law better than most people you will encounter in guns shops and even most police. I was in your situation not too long ago and found that unless someone had a reason to know the laws with this they didn't know how this worked. Be aware though, a lot of stores like fleet farm will have special policy's on what they will sell to who. I.e. You need a permit to purchase for 18" shotguns under store policy. At least, that was the policy last time I looked.

Tl;dr apply for your permit (go online and download the form, print it, fill it out, take it to the policy station) go to a good gun shop that knows the laws and will work with you, and get your rifle.

Also note, rifles are ok but stripped lowers are a no go at 18 iirc.

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View · by **TheLoneWolf** on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:43 pm

Thank you all so much for the input. I'm planning to fill out the permit form and just go for it. The reason that I was so confused was getting all the mixed signals from people, and the fact that the statutes don't talk about the permit per se, just who is allowed to own them. It also seems like something the gun grabbers would do to indirectly raise the age to own one. If only people would be more educated on the subject, I wouldn't have to go all through all this confusion.

Oh, and yes, I know that the term "Assault weapons" means any weapon that can fire more than one shot per function of the trigger. I say "assault weapon" because that is what is says on the permit form.

View · by **dismal** on Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:37 pm

If the Sheriff balks, you may suggest that the PTP be annotated with "For authorized military-style assault rifles only."

http://www.mnguntalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29361

View · by **Meta-Prometheus** on Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:29 pm

Stupid liberals in MN, always making things more complicated. I would think you would be able to get the permit at 18, if at 18 you can legally purchase semi-auto rifles and shotguns and the ammo for them. Otherwise how else could you purchase them? The simple difference I hope would be that the gun store you go to simply checks your DL along with your permit and tells you that you can get any long gun, but not any handgun or ammo for them until you are 21. Simple differentiation.

Text directly from the application form:

Please read the following restrictions carefully. They apply to the possession of firearms, to purchase/transfer permits, and reports of transfer for handguns and semiautomatic
military-style assault weapons. Individuals with restrictions shall not be entitled to possess a pistol or any other firearm. The legal basis for the restrictions may be found in federal law (18 United States Code § 922) or Minnesota law
(Minnesota Statutes, §§ 253B.02, 624.712, 624.713. 624.7131 or 624.714). I understand the following:

•I must be at least 21 years old to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition from a federally licensed dealer.

•I must be at least 18 years old to purchase a semi-automatic assault rifle.

https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/bca/bca-di ... cation.pdf

Age 18-20 with permit, able to purchase any semi-auto long gun and ammo for them. Upon checking DL, FFL simply states you can't buy handguns or ammo for them until 21. Cool, straightforward.

Age 21+ with permit, able to purchase any long guns and any hand guns and ammo for both. Cool, straightforward.

That seems simple enough to me. If the gun store people can't handle that level of critical thinking, tell them you'll take your business elsewhere. If you are unable to get the permit from the PD however, that is another story.

Good God this state and its nanny laws make me angry. Look at how much hassle the OP has to deal with to get something that legally/constitutionally he is able to own!

View · by **Thunderjohn** on Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:23 pm

Some dept's will stamp or write 'not for handgun purchase' if you're under 21, which we know, but that
makes the dept. happy.
So , you just got good info. And as LZ stated, you cannot buy a lower until you're 21.
Go get a purchase permit & get your rifle while there are some left.

View · by **TheLoneWolf** on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:47 pm

dismal wrote:If the Sheriff balks, you may suggest that the PTP be annotated with "For authorized military-style assault rifles only."

Hmm... Wounder if I should try to talk with the Chief before hand, so that way he knows what I want the permit for.

LumberZach wrote:Also note, rifles are ok but stripped lowers are a no go at 18 iirc.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I guess it's because you cold turn them into a handgun type weapon since the lowers are interchangeable. Anyone know if I could get a Lower group with trigger, pistol grip, buffer tube and stock as well as the lower?

Another thing: as I was reading up on the laws regarding this, I came across the mention of something called a report of transfer or something like that. But when I tried to find more info on it, I couldn't find anything. It sounded like something that you fill out at the time of purchase that is then submitted to the state as a record of ownership. Anyone ever heard of such a thing?

View · by **Randygmn** on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:53 pm

Craigslist is an option. Most (not all, of course) folks selling on there know the laws.

View · by **LumberZach** on Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:57 pm

TheLoneWolf wrote:
dismal wrote:If the Sheriff balks, you may suggest that the PTP be annotated with "For authorized military-style assault rifles only."

Hmm... Wounder if I should try to talk with the Chief before hand, so that way he knows what I want the permit for.

LumberZach wrote:Also note, rifles are ok but stripped lowers are a no go at 18 iirc.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. I guess it's because you cold turn them into a handgun type weapon since the lowers are interchangeable. Anyone know if I could get a Lower group with trigger, pistol grip, buffer tube and stock as well as the lower?

Another thing: as I was reading up on the laws regarding this, I came across the mention of something called a report of transfer or something like that. But when I tried to find more info on it, I couldn't find anything. It sounded like something that you fill out at the time of purchase that is then submitted to the state as a record of ownership. Anyone ever heard of such a thing?

I think the transfer thing is more of an ffl requirement, but I wouldn't know. For your purposes I wouldn't worry.

But yes, you can buy a complete lower that has a rifle or carbine buffer tube installed as it is at that point a rifle and can't "legally" be converted to a pistol. It would all have to be pre-installed though. Lots of places sell complete lowers for <$300ish.

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View · by **Randygmn** on Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:02 pm

Craigslist is an option. Most (not all, of course) folks selling on there know the laws.

View · by **grimbeaver** on Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:44 am

TheLoneWolf wrote:
dismal wrote:If the Sheriff balks, you may suggest that the PTP be annotated with "For authorized military-style assault rifles only."

Hmm... Wounder if I should try to talk with the Chief before hand, so that way he knows what I want the permit for.

Personally I would not do that. Pleading a case before anyone has accused you of wrong doing rarely is a good idea. Keep in mind most departments have just one or two people who process permit requests and it's usually not the chief. Those individuals are probably much better versed in the law than anyone else because for them to issue a permit to a ineligible individual would be very very bad for them. So unless you get the rookie processing your request it will probably be just fine. And if they do deny you based on age that should be pretty easy to appeal.