Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

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Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Lfryklu on Sun Apr 09, 2017 8:49 pm

New to Forum

I am looking for an Experienced Smithie to drill & tap four holes in WWII Mauser K98 receiver.

After holes and drilled & tapped, I need to have the front and rear scope mounts silver soldered to the receiver.

I went through this before with another Smithie, and he was convinced did not need to solder the mounts as 'today's' glues were just as strong.

Well, that did not work out and first few shots, the screws ripped out.

So, I am starting over with another K98, no worries as someone else has already drilled & tapped 'modern in-line' scope mount, so I am not wrecking a 'historical' rifle, as someone else already did that to this rifle.

It is perfect for my project, as the WWII scope mounts were on the sides of the mounts, not Iline.

Okay, that said I need some one who is 'skilled' at drilling & tapping in very hard steel, and I need someone that can and will silver solder the mounts to the receiver.

Now, please do not recommend Ahlmans, as I will never go there ever again. I called and the 'manager' told me they could and would do it, and I drove a considerable distance, went over what I wanted 'In person' with my rifle, and again I dealt with the manager and left my rifle telling them I was not in a hurry, I just wanted it done right.

Almost five months later, after several follow up calls, now the 'manager' told me that none of the 'contract' Smiths there wanted to do the job, so they shipped me my rifle back at no charge.... WTF?

Did you guys know that none of the Smiths there that do the work on the guns are not 'employees' of Ahlmans... No kidding, they are contract workers that Ahlmans provides the place for them to work.... Never go to Ahlmans !!!

Then I ran into the guy that wanted to glue on the mount, instead of soldering and now the tapped holes are stripped out on that rifle.

The K98 8mm round has big time recoil and that is why the Germans soldered on the mounts, so they would not rip out.


Now for my current 2nd try at this....

Back to the reason for my Post... Does anyone know of an 'Experienced' Smithie that could do this work for me...?

I do not need someone who slaps together and then tweaks up Black rifles, I need a Craftsman who is Experienced, and not some rookie willing to give it a shot....

How about it guys.... Can anyone help me find someone good at the Craft of Gunsmithing?

Would really appreciate any Referrals, who you know would be competent at this kind of a project?

Thanks & best regards

Lfryklu
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby FJ540 on Sun Apr 09, 2017 9:20 pm

I'm curious why the original receiver is trashed just because the screws ripped out? You can go to a size larger, put in coils, etc. Since you're soldering it up after, the coils wouldn't bear any load anyway.
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Lfryklu on Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:30 am

I'm moving to different rifle for several reasons, least of which were the ripped out screws.
BTW, that what you described had already redone, and got the same story about today's miracle glue, and a guarantee that the 2nd time would hold for sure - Not.
I used a Yugo Rework for the first run at it, learned my lessons doing it the first time, so greatly upgrading the rifle and the scope to get exactly what I wanted w/o spending five figures for a German sniper rifle.
I will sell the Yugo to some local MN WWII German Reenactor to beat around with it that way in the field for their tactical battle simulations.
That puts it into a short answer to your question.
Now, I am looking for an Experienced Smithie to do the work I specified that I want, and I need help to find him.
Any leads would be greatly appreciated.
I know someone is out there who can do it, but I need some help to connect with one.
My project is ready fir a good Smithie to start in it.
Thanks in advace for any connection you all might br able to provide to me.
Appreciate
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby old guy on Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:58 am

I have a Mauser 98 in 458 Winchester, and does not rip the screws out of the bases.
I have never seen a rifle with the bases soldered on, this would ruin the heat treat of the receiver. If you think the 8mm has recoil you ain't seen nothin yet.
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby JJ on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:09 am

old guy wrote:I have a Mauser 98 in 458 Winchester, and does not rip the screws out of the bases.
I have never seen a rifle with the bases soldered on, this would ruin the heat treat of the receiver. If you think the 8mm has recoil you ain't seen nothin yet.


If 8mm Mauser ripped the screws out, the smith you were working with had no idea what they were doing. With old military receivers, you always need to spot anneal the receiver where you will be drilling. The receivers are case hardened and that outer layer will eat up drill bits and taps. I've had to open more than one up to 8-40 screws, and open up the bases to fit the larger diameter screws (once on my own accord :D ).

If the receiver is spot annealed, and properly drilled and tapped, there is no reason to silver solder.

It's your gun, do as you will, but silver soldering is way overkill.
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Seismic Sam on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:48 am

Not sure if my socks need changing or something else, but I smell something fishy, including the handle of the OP
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Lfryklu on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:49 am

Guys,

Not trying to educate anybody with my request to locate an experienced Smithie, but to let you know in WWII Germany the 'Low and High Turret' mounts anyway, and most likely the Claw mounts too, were curved to match the contour of the tops of the K98 receiver where they mounted.

Then, the screw holes were located down on the lower part of the mount, on both the right and left sides of the rifle.
The mounting holes were then drilled and tapped, and then were screwed in, finally then the mounts 'were indeed' actually Silver soldered to the receiver.
No kidding, or imagination here - Historically accurate and correct as far as manufacturing process.

Also, the scopes that were used in this process of producing a WWII sniper rifle were completely disassembled, and the 'closed ring' mount tops were 'also silver soldered' to the scope tube, and then the scope was reassembled, and everything was put together and a completed WWII German sniper rifle was then issued to Wehrmacht and SS Snipers.

SOURCE of Historical fact = All of this in in Peter Sencich's Two (2) books on the K98 rifle:
K98 - Backbone of the Wehrmacht
K98 - Backbone of the Wehrmacht - Sniper variations

In it I also read, that it was found early on in the production process that they needed to silver solder the mounts, as they ripped out as mine did.

I had an earlier reply that said he had a K98 and was in .458 and it did not need that, and the recoil was more than my 8mm rounds. I'm sure it is.
Actually, I have another rifle in .47-70, using a Weaver mount scope set up that works fine too, and is 'like recoil' to his set up.

Okay, 'Old Guy' had evidently sporterized his K98, the scope he used was probably not a WWII scope, but a 'modern one' using a Weaver type mounting base where 'all four screws' are in a straight line down the top of the receiver.
Yes, that design is far more secure and does not need to be silver soldered as do the WWII style mounts.

The Germans in WWII had a whole program and infrastructure for selection of acceptable rifles for building into sniper rifles, and then the whole process I described above was actually performed for each rifler for what I am trying to replicate, or clone.

FTI> I have seen and held to inspect several 'Original' WWII German sniper rifles, and all of them had soldered scope components. All of them 'five figure' rifles, because they were 'original WWII sniper' rifles.

Again, I am not trying to provide a 'history lesson' with my Post request, nor an I crazy, or not know what I am doing, or 'over-killing' anything.
All of what I have described is based on historical fact.
Don't believe it, buy and read the books - I did.

The Germans had all of this figured out in WWII, and I am trying to have 'as close as I can' come with a 'clone' to having a 'built in 2017' WWII 'Style' sniper rifle.
What I would not be able to do, or try to replicate is the disassembly of my WWII Zeiss scope to put on 'closed ring' mount tops, and then solder them to the scope tube.
If I could, I would but, I am okay with Split ring scope base tops for right now on this project.

So, I hope this contains further 'Editorial comment', based on my working off of published historical reference's with the two Senich books on K98 Rifles acknowledged to be the best, and most complete, and 'authoritative' source of information on WWII K98k riles as were used by the German Army and the SS.


Back to what I am looking for, I need an 'Experienced Smithie' that is seasoned in the 'Craft of Gunsmithing'.

I located a correct BYF coded and Dated actual Mauser K98k, the kind of rifle actually used in the sniper rifle build program that someone had already 'boogered up' by drilling and tapping for a Modern scope set up.

Personally, I would/will not drill and tap any 'historical rifle', but I found one that fit my needs that just needed the scope mount holes drilled in the correct location. The WWII Turret mount scope bases I am using perfectly covered the existing In-line top drilled fours holes that someone had put in for a Weaver base modern scope set up.

The first project that went south on me with the ripped out mounting screws were in a Post WWII, Yugo 'reworked' rifle with a new barrel, that they did not even get the front and rear sights correctly positioned and oriented down the center, with both not being top and center aligned. both front and rear sights were off leaning toward the left side.

My earlier Smithie who told me that glue was just as good, was able to realign the front sight by torch 'sweating' the front sight ring to correct it, but he could not get the rear 'sight tube base' to let go, so it remains off to the left side.

So, I will sell it to a WWII Reenactor for their purposes.


My finding the 'right rifle' with already 'boogered up' modern Weaver mount holes in the receiver started my second WWII sniper 'clone' rifle project to get it right this time.

Back to my question and original query, who can refer someone qualified and willing who can perform this work i have described?

Please help me find someone, who is able to deliver quality work for me for what I want done.

Thanks and best regards,

Lfryklu
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby OldmanFCSA on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:15 pm

Seismic Sam,

I agree with you.

I'm not going to touch this one and recommend no one else touch it.

(I've done some dumb modifications in my day, but this one stinks badly.)

OldmanFCSA :picsneeded:
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:44 pm

OldmanFCSA wrote:Seismic Sam,

I agree with you.

I'm not going to touch this one and recommend no one else touch it.

(I've done some dumb modifications in my day, but this one stinks badly.)

OldmanFCSA :picsneeded:


Why. He seems to have done his homework.
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby hard h2o on Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:09 pm

The real odoriferous part of this is the search for a real 'Experienced Smithie' to do the work.

There have to be dozens of 'Experienced Smithie' types who can drill and tap a receiver and then silver solder the mount on.

That is the part that gets me.

I do not buy that the mount needs to be silver soldered (the Germans tended to over engineer everything) but if that is what the OP wants then I have no problem with it.

I do not understand why the original 'Smithie' would not silver solder the mounts if that is what the customer wanted. That seems within the realm of skills that a gunsmith would have and if not he should be able to recommend a smith with those skills and not suggest that "todays glues" are better than silver solder.

I think there must be more to this story than what we are lead to believe.
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby crbutler on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:07 pm

Sounds like an attempt to make a counterfeit k98 sniper.

All well and good, but good luck finding someone capable of doing repro work that is not going to charge extensively and then make sure it will not be passed off as an original.
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby FJ540 on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:22 pm

crbutler wrote:Sounds like an attempt to make a counterfeit k98 sniper.

All well and good, but good luck finding someone capable of doing repro work that is not going to charge extensively and then make sure it will not be passed off as an original.


Without the solid rings, this wouldn't fly (per the OP's notation).

Thank GOD I'm not a real smithie. :bolt:
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Lfryklu on Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:42 pm

Guys,

Nothing more to this story.... at all

And actually its not 'a story', it is a request for assistance in locating someone in MN, my home state that can do the work I want done.

I have laid out all the facts of everything I have dealt with so far, and the and the chronology of what has happened.

The original 'Smithie' I engaged was convinced of modern glues ability to hold, and it did not work out...twice.
What I have left out is naming him, as I do not want to disparage anybody, I just want someone else for my 'second attempt' at the project.

When the left front screw let go my first time out to the range, I took the rifle back to him and he tapped it, and put in a larger screw and old me it would never let go, yet it did, after only a couple shots the second time out to the range.

I have not gone back to him, because he would not solder the mounts the first time I asked, and then the second time I a, continually going back to telling me how good 'modern glues' are.
I guess the glues are not as good as the way the Germans originally did it back then.
Over engineered as it may be, it seems to be what I need done...

I want the WWII style set up for this rifle, so I am trying to replicate what I know from history was the way it was done back then, and there is nothing more to it than that.

So far, I am not getting names of suggested "Smithies' out there that you may know of.....??

Yes, there are many 'Gunsmiths'... out there, but a great many of them concentrate on putting together 'Black rifles', and customization of 1911 pistols, as that is what is popular right now, as opposed to a project like this.

Please do not misunderstand, I am not slamming 'Black rifles' as I own a Colt SP-1, and love it, but right now I am working on my K98 WWII sniper clone, with the correct/right period components and I am only trying to find someone good, who has a range of expertise and solid experience working on guns.

Guys, can anyone make some suggestions of names of people I can contact to discuss my project with?

Evidently, from what I have learned from the failure of my 1st project, up to now, is that drilling and tapping of a K98 vintage rifle is somewhat problematic, due to the hardness of the receivers of that era and that it involves drilling into a 'contoured surface'.

Homework - Yes, I have done considerable homework for my project, as all of the components are expensive, and once drilling has started, there is no going back.

I have been through posts on K98 forums and this seems to be common knowledge that work of this type is a challenge.

I am now on this forum in my home state, hoping to deal with someone I can deal with face to face.

Ahlman's Comments
Several 'gunsmiths' there did not want to take it on my project as they thought it was 'too difficult' to do.
When they already had my rifle for several months, and had not worked on it, I again dealt with the store manager and he told me that he then checked with several of the 'contract' labor gunsmiths who work out of that location, but are not employed by Ahlmans, and none of them wanted to do it. Citing the job as being too difficult.' Really, I wondered...


If elt like I really got 'jerked around' there, so they lost my business forever, and everyone else that I can share my experience with...
Like everyone reading my post now.

Honestly, I never though I would have this much difficulty finding a 'Smithie' with the level of experience that I am looking for in MN.

I am sure I can find someone on the National K98 forums, but I thought I should not have much of a problem finding someone in my backyard, in my home state, but so far that is also a problem.

Right now anyway....

Names anyone ??

Thanks & best regards,

Lfryklu
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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby Lfryklu on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:01 pm

Now I see what looks like an accusation of me trying to make a Counterfeit rifle'? Really.

Those are too easily identified, and that is not what I am doing.

I am looking for what I can afford, to have for my own that is as close as it can get.

I just want a cool sniper clone rifle....


"Glad you are not a 'real smithie' ..." Really?

Apologies if anyone is taking offense at any of my words, but there are a lot of rookies out there claiming that they are experienced, and I am sorry but I do not want one.


The one that insisted on the glue was in the Gun Craftsman's Guild and could not get it done right.... So, I am getting very specific with what I want now.

If you believe you can do what I want, then give me your name and lets talk about it...

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Re: Mauser K98 - Need Experienced Smithie to Drill & Tap Receive

Postby hard h2o on Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:10 am

If you know some good forums specializing in your genre of firearm I would think it best to find the name of a smithie who has done the work regardless of whether they live in your home state. Then utilize one of the companies the can handle shipping and transport of the receiver and have the work done at the shop of a known smith specializing in this particular modification. If it is as common amongst the folks who favor that type of firearm as you say then it should not be hard to find a reputable smith to handle the work.

As you have found the folks on this site, me included, are very skeptical of people coming in with low post counts and, prior to establishing themselves, coming up with a long, somewhat convoluted story.

Good luck getting done what you desire.
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