An interesting discussion on background checks

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An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby jdege on Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:34 pm

https://opensourcedefense.org/blog/game-theory-and-guns-why-universal-background-checks-are-a-debate-and-how-to-solve-it?
Game theory and guns: why universal background checks are a debate — and how to solve it
If you follow gun stuff, you’ve been hearing a lot about universal background checks. So let’s get the lay of the land. This article is especially for people who are roughly aware of the issue but don’t know the details of it, or the details of why it’s a debate at all.

And yeah, why is it a debate? The question “Would you favor or oppose background checks on all potential gun buyers?” really does poll at 90% support. That’s surprising. You can’t get 90% of people to agree on a flavor of ice cream, let alone a gun law.

What’s going on here? There are three key questions to answer:
  1. If universal background checks have 90% support, why haven’t they already become law?
  2. Why does each side insist on a path that the other side genuinely believes is insane? Why does each side only try to win by force?
  3. Is there a law that will give everyone what they want at the same time? What would that look like?
Let’s answer them one by one.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Holland&Holland on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:41 pm

Good article
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby jdege on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:03 pm

Yes, but he's proposed a solution that only addresses the public agenda of the anti-gun zealots.

They will never accept it, because it only addresses their claimed objectives, and does nothing to address their actual objectives.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby daleamn on Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:25 pm

Wow. Really good article. There's lots of meat in this article and lots of points made. This is just ONE of many that I thought was exceptionally good.

“Trying to enforce a law requiring background checks on gun owners selling one of their firearms to another individual would be like trying to enforce a law requiring you to show ID before you can get a beer from your buddy’s cooler at the neighborhood BBQ.”
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby ex-LT on Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:19 am

jdege wrote:Yes, but he's proposed a solution that only addresses the public agenda of the anti-gun zealots.

They will never accept it, because it only addresses their claimed objectives, and does nothing to address their actual objectives.

That is precisely why his proposed solution SHOULD be proposed.

If you propose it, and the anti-gun zealots reject it, it exposes their true objective, and marginalizes their public agenda.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:25 am

An interesting article and proposal, but....

Without some kind of registration scheme, how would law enforcement know if a firearm was legally transferred? What would keep someone from selling/buying without the check?
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:28 am

A couple miscellaneous thoughts, How much would it cost to upgrade NICS to handle the added traffic and give a timely response?

How about throwing in carry reciprocity for all 50 states?
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Citiot on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:28 am

Rip Van Winkle wrote:A couple miscellaneous thoughts, How much would it cost to upgrade NICS to handle the added traffic and give a timely response?

How about throwing in carry reciprocity for all 50 states?


I’d be ok with this. It’s a true compromise.

EDIT: add liability insurance to anyone who goes through the universal NICS system as an incentive to use it. Plus, make it free. Have Bloomberg pay for it since he is so concerned about gun safety.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby jdege on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:46 am

Rip Van Winkle wrote:An interesting article and proposal, but....

Without some kind of registration scheme, how would law enforcement know if a firearm was legally transferred? What would keep someone from selling/buying without the check?


Why would we care? The guy who is carrying the gun is doing so either legally or illegally. Isn't that the critical issue?
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:46 am

Citiot wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:EDIT: add liability insurance to anyone who goes through the universal NICS system as an incentive to use it.

But without universal registration, how would you know?
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:50 am

jdege wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:An interesting article and proposal, but....

Without some kind of registration scheme, how would law enforcement know if a firearm was legally transferred? What would keep someone from selling/buying without the check?


Why would we care? The guy who is carrying the gun is doing so either legally or illegally. Isn't that the critical issue?

I'm playing devil's advocate here. This is one of the arguments the anti's are going to make.

If there is no way to tell if someone went through the legal transfer process, there's no way to prosecute them.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby MJY65 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:33 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:An interesting article and proposal, but....

Without some kind of registration scheme, how would law enforcement know if a firearm was legally transferred? What would keep someone from selling/buying without the check?



I suppose the same thing that keeps some people from buying drugs on the street corner or hiring prostitutes. There is always the chance that it is part of a sting and you'd get pinched.
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An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby dismal on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:35 pm

Without registration, they could probably track new guns from the time after a law was passed. They could do a search on the SN to see where it was sold, and find who the original purchaser was. Very tedious work, and won’t do anything for the 300+ million guns already out there.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby jdege on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:41 pm

If there is a permanent government record of every legal transfer, then simple possession of a firearm manufactured after the effective date becomes a crime, for which the existence of the proper paper trail becomes an affirmative defense.

Every gun owner will be presumed a criminal, forced to prove that he obtained a firearm through approved channels.
Last edited by jdege on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An interesting discussion on background checks

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:20 pm

jdege wrote:If there is a permanent government record of every legal transfer, then simple possession of a firearm manufactured after the effective date becomes a crime, for which the existence of the proper paper trail becomes an affirmative defense.

Every gun owner all be presumed a criminal, forced to prove that he obtained a firearm through approved channels.

And that’s a good thing?
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