Private Transfer Form

[jdege]

Keeping a piece of paperwork around for 10 years??? And being able to find it when someone asks for it?
Question: How LONG do they give you to find it? If I took this route I'd have it in a bank's safety deposit box so it would be banker's hours to produce it.

Digital copies are acceptable, so simply keep it with your computer backups.

[westhope]

How is a firearm traced when a private transfer through an FFL is done unless the transferor keeps a record of the transfer through the FFL to show the FFL was used?

I can contemplate many scenarios where a firearm trace hits a dead end. Actually most.

I guess intent of the law is about preventing the sale to criminals not tracing the firearm but we all know how well that will work.

[bstrawse]

How is a firearm traced when a private transfer through an FFL is done unless the transferor keeps a record of the transfer through the FFL to show the FFL was used?

I can contemplate many scenarios where a firearm trace hits a dead end. Actually most.

You're completing a 4473 and that's traceable.

[bstrawse]

Keeping a piece of paperwork around for 10 years??? And being able to find it when someone asks for it?
Question: How LONG do they give you to find it? If I took this route I'd have it in a bank's safety deposit box so it would be banker's hours to produce it.

I think buying or selling with a private individual I'll go to an FFL and pay the transfer fee to avoid the hassle.
P.S. I'm CERTAIN all the Twin Cities drive-byers will adhering to the new law so we should see a MAJOR decrease in the 'Gun Violence'. /sarcasm off

The statute doesn't provide a time - a lot will come down to the officer and prosecutor that is demanding it.

b

[westhope]

How is a firearm traced when a private transfer through an FFL is done unless the transferor keeps a record of the transfer through the FFL to show the FFL was used?

I can contemplate many scenarios where a firearm trace hits a dead end. Actually most.

You're completing a 4473 and that's traceable.

But only if the private seller can identify the FFL used when the transfer is used can the 4473 be traced. The trace is started at the manufacturer, to the FFL and to the private purchase. Unless the private seller keeps a record of the FFL used when they sell, the link in the trace is lost.

Just my thinking.

[gun_fan111v2]

How is a firearm traced when a private transfer through an FFL is done unless the transferor keeps a record of the transfer through the FFL to show the FFL was used?

I can contemplate many scenarios where a firearm trace hits a dead end. Actually most.

You're completing a 4473 and that's traceable.

But only if the private seller can identify the FFL used when the transfer is used can the 4473 be traced. The trace is started at the manufacturer, to the FFL and to the private purchase. Unless the private seller keeps a record of the FFL used when they sell, the link in the trace is lost.

Just my thinking.

I would think all FFL’s could be asked to check for a serial number in their records, there is a known list and they all have posted emails.

[westhope]

The number of FFL's in MN that I found are 2,434.

Asking each FFL to check their records they must keep for 20 years for a specific firearm S/N sounds like a great burden. Last that I knew, only paper records can be kept.

For me, the intent of the law was to prevent the sale to a known criminal by a private seller. How well it would work is doubtful to me. (The intent of the law was political to make anti-gunners to feel good.)

[daleamn]

I am NOT being argumentative here, I'm just getting a bit confused. I thought if you and the private seller/buyer went to an FFL and did the transaction then neither of you had to keep any paperwork.

I still maintain that keeping paperwork around for 10 years would be a pain with sever consequences if you lost it or had a fire or flood etc. I realize keeping an electronic version of it is possible but of course that road has its own problems too.

P.S. I am still, totally, unconvinced this will reduce the 'gun violence' we are experiencing because I don't think the people shooting up the Twin Cities pay attention to ANY laws and the straw buyers (already illegal) will continue to sell guns to felons (already illegal) for money and they will not pay any attention to this new law.

P.P.S. I'd like to thank the folk on the site for providing information to clear this up and for posting questions that I haven't thought of yet.

[westhope]

That is the point, if an FFL is used the seller is NOT REQUIRED to keep paperwork. But when the firearm is traced to the seller, unless they keep paperwork from the FFL transaction, how do they prove an FFL was used unless they remember 10 years later which FFL it was so then the police can go to that FFL and continue the trace.

The law is an attempt to prevent the sale of a private firearm to a criminal, not about maintaining a traceable firearm.

Sorry for my rant.

[daleamn]

That is the point, if an FFL is used the seller is NOT REQUIRED to keep paperwork. But when the firearm is traced to the seller, unless they keep paperwork from the FFL transaction, how do they prove an FFL was used unless they remember 10 years later which FFL it was so then the police can go to that FFL and continue the trace.

Sorry for my rant.

Okay. I FINALLY see what you're getting at. I like to think I'm USUALLY not this slow but I sure was this time. Thanks for not giving up. I don't think at any point you were on a rant you were just pointing out one piece of the law and I was just not 'getting it' but I (once again, finally) see what you mean. Once again, thanks.