MN: SPC active shooter.............?

[chunkstyle]

Jim Stumne Director of Marketing, Public Affairs & Alumni Development

Dept. Marketing Administration

651-846-1305

Stumne's Supervisor-Craig Anderson

jim.stumne@saintpaul.edu

Tried that, got stuck in voice mail Hell.

[chunkstyle]

I just called his Mom.

That's awsome, so are you going out to dinner then?

If that's what you want to call it.

His Mom's number.... (775) 343-1888

HA!

[JJ]

Good luck actually talking to that guy(Jim Stumne). When I was in Tech school he worked for PTC, and was famous for deflecting criticism or responsibility for anything to others.

[mrmuko]

Lenny7 and Chunckstyle Thanks for getting out there and correcting the sheeple on this one. Better than that just a guy out there.

[plblark]

Mr. Walsh,

This e-mail is in reference to your story "Report of man with gun prompts sweep of St. Paul College" found online at http://www.startribune.com/local/60708642.html?

While all responsible firearms instructors and owners certainly hope this turns out to be nothing, I feel compelled to correct an assertion school spokesman Jim Stumne made.

From your story:
St. Paul College does not have posted the commonly seen signs that declare guns "banned on these premises." However, Stumne said, "It's against the law to bring weapons onto a state campus like this."

Stumne is incorrect in citing the state law. St. Paul College, as a public college and member of MNSCU may have an administrative policy banning firearms for students and employees. While they may impose academic and administrative sanctions. Since St. Paul College is not a K-12 Educational facility, it is NOT illegal to posess a firearm on their campus with a permit to carry.


The relevant section of MN Statute:
(http://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/data ... 4/714.html):

" Subd. 18. Employers; public colleges and universities.

(a) An employer, whether public or private, may establish policies that restrict the carry or possession of firearms by its employees while acting in the course and scope of employment. Employment related civil sanctions may be invoked for a violation.

(b) A public post secondary institution regulated under chapter 136F or 137 may establish policies that restrict the carry or possession of firearms by its students while on the institution's property. Academic sanctions may be invoked for a violation.

(c) Notwithstanding paragraphs (a) and (b), an employer or a postsecondary institution may not prohibit the lawful carry or possession of firearms in a parking facility or parking area. "
[...]
"Subd. 23. Exclusivity. This section sets forth the complete and exclusive criteria and procedures for the issuance of permits to carry and establishes their nature and scope. No sheriff, police chief, governmental unit, government official, government employee, or other person or body acting under color of law or governmental authority may change, modify, or supplement these criteria or procedures, or limit the exercise of a permit to carry. "

This means that while St. Paul College may invoke academic or employment sanctions on an employee or student, the sanctions have no effect on a law abiding permit holder not employed by nor attending the institution. Even for an employee or student, a MNSCU / St. Paul College administrative policy may have been broken but not the law.

Stumne would be more correct in asserting the following:
It is against St. Paul College policy for a student or employee to have a firearm on campus, even with a valid permit to carry.

Paul Bxxxxxx
Certified firearms instructor
NRA certified basic pistol and personal protection in the home
MADFI certified carry permit instructor (http://www.madfi.org)
MN Tactics certified carry permit instructor (http://www.mntactics.com)

[mrmuko]

Man this makes us all look bad

[plblark]

to: jim.stumne@saintpaul.edu; craig.anderson@saintpaul.edu

Gentlemen,

I expect that facts and accuracy are very important to you as representatives of a public educational institution furthering the quest for knowledge and truth. After all “It's not what we don't know that hurts us, it's what we do know that isn't so.” - Will Rogers

I invite your attention to the following inaccuracy.

Paul B******

[plblark]

what a perfect scenario for a false flag operation complete with SWAT teams, Cordons, and a lock down.

[lenny7]

Lenny7 and Chunckstyle Thanks for getting out there and correcting the sheeple on this one. Better than that just a guy out there.

I posted this but it got removed. Must have been because of my reference to Light Rail

Editor25..

Just like the old west? Are you serious? You can't be serious....but you are, aren't you. I must have missed all the news reports of permit holders killing people in cold blood after a bit of morning road rage. I must have missed the reports of those darn gun nuts getting drunk at the bars and shooting up the joint. I missed them because it HASN'T HAPPENED! I urge you to download the 2008 Permit to Carry Report from the Minnesota BCA website and see just how much, and what type of crime the nearly 57,000 Minnesota permit holders (as of 12/31/08..there's over 64,000 now) have committed. It's negligible. Now for a truly revealing statistic, compare those numbers with the general population and you'll see that permit holders, as a group, are far more law abiding than your average citizen. Violent crime by permit holders is near ZERO. Finally, take a look at light rail. Light Rail has killed SEVEN people in just over five years. The statistics show clearly that Light Rail poses a bigger danger for the people of Minnesota than those with a Permit to Carry Take some time to learn the facts before

[mnglocker]

Lenny7 and Chunckstyle Thanks for getting out there and correcting the sheeple on this one. Better than that just a guy out there.

I posted this but it got removed. Must have been because of my reference to Light Rail

Editor25..

Just like the old west? Are you serious? You can't be serious....but you are, aren't you. I must have missed all the news reports of permit holders killing people in cold blood after a bit of morning road rage. I must have missed the reports of those darn gun nuts getting drunk at the bars and shooting up the joint. I missed them because it HASN'T HAPPENED! I urge you to download the 2008 Permit to Carry Report from the Minnesota BCA website and see just how much, and what type of crime the nearly 57,000 Minnesota permit holders (as of 12/31/08..there's over 64,000 now) have committed. It's negligible. Now for a truly revealing statistic, compare those numbers with the general population and you'll see that permit holders, as a group, are far more law abiding than your average citizen. Violent crime by permit holders is near ZERO. Finally, take a look at light rail. Light Rail has killed SEVEN people in just over five years. The statistics show clearly that Light Rail poses a bigger danger for the people of Minnesota than those with a Permit to Carry Take some time to learn the facts before

Facts tend to sting when they colide with the liberal lefts' face.

[plblark]

Beware, the story has changed again but is still incorrect.

I note the story has been changed. While better than the original, MN does not have a "Conceal and Carry" Law. We have a Permit to Carry which is found in statute in a bill with the short title: Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act.

I appreciate the edit, and would agree with Schnell. The 4 universal rules of gun safety do too. Having a gun out and waving it around is one thing. Being in an elevator, taking a firearm from a holster to place in a bag or etc for example and having the elevator door open would be something different.

It's sad and alarming that the presence of a gun leads to speculation of crime absent the salient details of actual behavior and intent.

Thank you for your time,

upon re-reading it, there is another issue:

The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.

That seems to say it's legal to carry on college property without a permit.

perhaps:

The state's carry permit statute bans weapons possession public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property with a permit.

[mnglocker]

Beware, the story has changed again but is still incorrect.

I note the story has been changed. While better than the original, MN does not have a "Conceal and Carry" Law. We have a Permit to Carry which is found in statute in a bill with the short title: Minnesota Citizens Personal Protection Act.

I appreciate the edit, and would agree with Schnell. The 4 universal rules of gun safety do too. Having a gun out and waving it around is one thing. Being in an elevator, taking a firearm from a holster to place in a bag or etc for example and having the elevator door open would be something different.

It's sad and alarming that the presence of a gun leads to speculation of crime absent the salient details of actual behavior and intent.

Thank you for your time,

upon re-reading it, there is another issue:

The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.

That seems to say it's legal to carry on college property without a permit.

perhaps:

The state's carry permit statute bans weapons possession public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property with a permit.

Technically, carry isn't banned in k-12 schools, it's restrictedm unless of course you're like Dean and can get your hands on a little note on the back of the Principals business card.

[plblark]

The article has changed but is still imperfect.

Report of man with gun prompts sweep of St. Paul college

By PAUL WALSH, Star Tribune

Last update: September 23, 2009 - 3:06 PM

The main building at St. Paul College is undergoing an extensive security sweep after a student reported seeing a man in an elevator with a gun in his hand, police officials said.

Starting about 11 a.m., a lockdown was first put in place -- meaning no one could enter or leave the building -- and that was followed about two hours later by an evacuation out the main entrance of the two-year college on Marshall Avenue, said school spokesman Jim Stumne.

"Students are walking out right in front of me," Stumne said early this afternoon. "St. Paul police have it well under control."

Authorities have yet to find anything suspicious, said police spokesman Sgt. Paul Schnell, adding that the sweep should be complete around 3 p.m.

Classes for the afternoon have been canceled, school officials said. Barring a troubling discovery, the building is expected to be reopened by about 4 p.m., allowing evening classes to be held as scheduled, Stumne said.

Shortly after 11 this morning, a female student reported to school officials that she saw "this gun was out and at some point it was in the man's hand," Schnell said. "At one point, he reached out and grabbed a gun from a ledge or something in an elevator, and that's what caught her attention."

School officials then relayed the information to police.

The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.

St. Paul College, as part of the Minnesota State Colleges and Universities (MnSCU) system, does have a policy against students and employees possessing a firearm on school property, but it cannot prevent properly permitted visitors from being armed.

The student who made the report "is not just a person who saw someone with a holstered weapon," Schnell said, explaining the thinking behind the extensive security response. "I don't think it was the legislative intent to allow people to wave a gun around."

The 7,000-student school is on Marshall Avenue in the heart of the city's Cathedral Hill section. It is the oldest of the metro area's public two-year colleges.

Paul Walsh • 612-673-4482

[Pat]

The state's "conceal and carry" statute bans weapons possession without a permit on public- and private-school property up through 12th grade but not on college property.

I just called Mr. Walsh at the Strib (a shirt tail relative), and told him how the law works, and what it is actually called.

[DeanC]

Anybody seen Josh Hendrickson lately?