Rep. Gabrielle Giffords shot in AZ

[goalie]

I would want to be real careful with all this "mental" and "unbalanced" stuff.............Since psychology is relatively subjective in most cases, and even the professionals can not guarantee 100% diagnosis in all but extreme cases. it would be real easy to have someone put on the "list", by complaining because you didn't like them, reporting them on your i-phone GSA applet, or very similar to what they attempted to do with military personnel that came back from the sand box and saw a shrink for numerous problems and issues.

Do you really want a list for anyone that has had depression (regardless of the reason like cancer or post-partum) or anxiety, or maybe they just prefer to be alone because they are shy and introverted. When we start classifying and grouping folks with generalities, it is a train that is difficult to bring back to the station. Look at some of the no-fly issues, do you really want the BATF or TSA to make the determinations and maintain those lists..........

IF you answer yes, then you are also part of the problem and an effen nanny-state sheep.....

Good Point, but, what then SHOULD be done to keep people like this nut job from going armed?

Sometimes you have to choose between being free and the illusion of safety. I would choose freedom. Many Americans would not.

[Dick Unger]

Pinnacle nailed it.

It appears that his school teachers and counselors were very familier with his illogical behavior. Their response? Kick him out, send him down the street. Exactly what will increaase his frustration, and they should be trained to know that. He was a textbook case of mentally ill; probably could be easily handled with some meds. But nobody will blame THEM for sending a dangerous guy away, instead, they'll blame the clerk at the gunstore for not stopping this.

Dick, I'm sure you know how hard it is to just get someone even evaluated, much less committed for mental health issues. At what point do you think he was an obvious danger to himself or others?

It IS hard to get someone evaluated; I'm kind of making a global cricitism of our whole system. I would be more convienient to blame just one person, but we cannot fairly do that.

But it appears that he had been making illogical but passionate arguments with many people, including the Representative herself. The teachers called authorities, the school did order an evaluation, with the aim of kicking him down the street. That works for THEM, I guess. A horribly frustrated and mentally ill person IS a danger; how much and for how long it will continue is uncertain. Smart folks should not fan the flames I don't think.

I don't think anyone showed any concern about HIM, including the school who accepted his tuition. It would be better if the school and the authorities at least offered some help. That's the only way this tragedy might have been prevented. I think it's dangerous to handle the mentally ill with very structured rules because that never works with an illogical person. He is what he is, and we need to be careful and smart about handling him. Tough treatment simply resulted in esculation. He need someone to listen. Now we will.

[Pinnacle]

It is not about blame, it is about speaking up loudly when someone does something that is scary, you have to mention it to someone that can and will listen.

It is nearly impossible to get someone evaluated, I know this. I face the mentally ill on a near daily basis here in DC, it is shameful the way that the mentally ill are largely ignored.

[Heffay]

From that Time article, it sounds like AZ is about 100,000 people behind who are supposed to be on the mental list. I have a feeling they'll be working through that with a bit more urgency now.

People not doing their jobs leads to events like this.

[hammAR]

It is easy to arm chair quarterback and to point the stinky finger of blame, but there are two sides to this like every argument/discussion. There are those that want them corralled and institutionalised and those that believe that they are people too and as such should be free.

It is an interesting dilemma to discuss and to watch. How many crimes have increased or decreased here in Mn since they closed the mental hospitals?.......How would you know if a shooting or robbery or rape was perpetrated by a mentally ill person? Since we in Mn can't "track" them just how would you gather statistics? Could a person like this purchase a gun in Mn?

It seems to me that there are a couple of individual cases or situations here in MN where some believe that an individual is a threat to self and society, while others believe that it is all for a cause.................not that dissimilar in certain regards to other situations like AZ and VA.........

who knows, as I don't.............

[John S.]

On the news yesterday, forget which, but a neighbor of the shooter and his parents, said they knew he was different, and that his Father was very argumentative about whatever ya got! I hope Dad's gettin a good psyc eval now!

[carver952]

It is nearly impossible to get someone evaluated

This is sometimes done as part of a plea bargain for a misdemanor to avoid jail time.

There are those that want them institutionalised and those that believe that they should be free.

Once they are evaluated and put on a low level risk list as vulnerable or impaired, they should not be able to buy a pistol for 5-10 years.
I've heard the arguments about rights to work vs public safety, and I've been burned by repeat offenders.
The employer makes a choice to hire or not based on the documented mental health decision by the judge, and the FFL has no choice.
In summary, Its better for someone to call it in and have an officer evaluate for possible disorderly conduct or assault threat.

[goalie]

Once they are evaluated and put on a low level risk list as vulnerable or impaired, they should not be able to buy a pistol for 5-10 years.
I've heard the arguments about rights to work vs public safety, and I've been burned by repeat offenders.

Some of us value freedom more than safety. Some of us value the appearance of safety more than freedom.

And that, my friends, sums up the arguments that will play out in the media (again) in a nutshell......

[hammAR]

It is too bad all these whiny, piss-ant MSM didn't get all this upset about Ft. Hood....................
well they did for a little until they found out that they were just infidels......................
oops, am I being racist again..........

[1911fan]

The purchase of the gun is a false flag argument. He could have done all he did and more by simply getting in a car or truck and speeding thru the crowd. He could have made a few Molotov cocktails and done the same. Nut jobs are among us and nearly impossible to stop without severe restrictions and curtailments of civil rights.

[solidgun]

Don't quite know,but was amazed that with all the carrying going on in Az no one shot back at this nut job.

As with all civilians allowed to carry, the firearm should be the last resort and in use of self-defense. The permit allows you to protect yourself and your family (or anyone that won't sue you), not become a superhero....or even a regular hero. Also, as with many permit holders, many lack training and knowledge of the law to carefully consider any type of response under such high stress situation.

[tman]

There has been some whining on the Left over Palin's use of crosshairs in some "targeting" ads.

I give you this, which is purported to be from the DNC, circa 2004. Don't hear much about it now..n but those look like BULLSEYES to me.

[ttousi]

There has been some whining on the Left over Palin's use of crosshairs in some "targeting" ads.

I give you this, which is purported to be from the DNC, circa 2004. Don't hear much about it now..n but those look like BULLSEYES to me.

you have to look thru rose colored glasses.......then they look less like bullseyes

[gyrfalcon]

Did anyone catch the interview with one of the guys who supposedly helped restrain the gunman on MSNBC? This guy said he carried a firearm on him, and when he ran out he actually grabbed the Glock away from another person who had pulled it away from Jared and told him to drop it....until others in the crowd told him he wasn't the the gunman and then he help them restrain Jared on the ground.

The guy didn't seem very bright but at least he said that additional gun laws won't help because criminals don't obey the law. Then he said some other dumb things about how he might have shot the one guy who was holding the pistol if he was all by himself... sounded like when he got to the scene it was a big hog pile with people wrestling for control.

[hammAR]

Jumping into an unknown situation, even the professionals screw up once in a while..................

Baltimore officer was killed by fellow officers
By BEN NUCKOLS, Associated Press

BALTIMORE – Baltimore police say that fellow officers fired the gun shots that killed a plainclothes officer during a melee outside a nightclub.
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Officer William Torbit Jr. was on duty in plainclothes when he responded to a report of trouble at the club. Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi (goo-lee-EHL-mee) says Torbit was trying to break up a fight when he was attacked and pulled out his weapon to defend himself.
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