Echoes of Trayvon Martin in Wisconsin shooting

[CraigJS]

tman, do they still have the charge of "breaking and entering". If so, what is that considered? Also doesn't much depend on your feeling threatened, as to whether or not you can use lethal force.( in home) Then lawyer up and shut up!

[gyrfalcon]

Sounds pretty simple to me. Come in my house in the middle of the night uninvited or unexpected and you will pay for it. I won't take the chance for you to be a bad guy wanting to do harm to my family. So YES it is that simple.

Just so you know, someone who enters your house without consent, and does nothing else, has only committed a misdemeanor Trespass. The felony part is committing a crime while inside. Kill them, and you will definitely have some 'splainin' to do.

I think you have it a bit backwards, if someone enters your house without consent they have some 'splainin' to do. Also they don't have to commit a crime to be charged with burglary if it can be proven that was their intent.

tman, do they still have the charge of "breaking and entering". If so, what is that considered? Also doesn't much depend on your feeling threatened, as to whether or not you can use lethal force.( in home) Then lawyer up and shut up!

Lets say you're at home and you see someone break the glass on your window and start climbing through it. It wouldn't be prudent/legal to just shoot them without verbally confronting them and telling them to STOP or otherwise explain WTF they're doing.

I've had some folks walk into my house that I could have probably killed legally in Minnesota. They were just being stupid like the person in this case was. The difference was is that I wasn't feeling threatened or wanting to clean up blood, bullet holes and going through a major ordeal because some drunk stoners wandered through a door I should have had locked looking for a previous tenant to buy more pot from.

[tman]

Sounds pretty simple to me. Come in my house in the middle of the night uninvited or unexpected and you will pay for it. I won't take the chance for you to be a bad guy wanting to do harm to my family. So YES it is that simple.

Just so you know, someone who enters your house without consent, and does nothing else, has only committed a misdemeanor Trespass. The felony part is committing a crime while inside. Kill them, and you will definitely have some 'splainin' to do.

I think you have it a bit backwards, if someone enters your house without consent they have some 'splainin' to do. Also they don't have to commit a crime to be charged with burglary if it can be proven that was their intent.

tman, do they still have the charge of "breaking and entering". If so, what is that considered? Also doesn't much depend on your feeling threatened, as to whether or not you can use lethal force.( in home) Then lawyer up and shut up!

Lets say you're at home and you see someone break the glass on your window and start climbing through it. It wouldn't be prudent/legal to just shoot them without verbally confronting them and telling them to STOP or otherwise explain WTF they're doing.

I've had some folks walk into my house that I could have probably killed legally in Minnesota. They were just being stupid like the person in this case was. The difference was is that I wasn't feeling threatened or wanting to clean up blood, bullet holes and going through a major ordeal because some drunk stoners wandered through a door I should have had locked looking for a previous tenant to buy more pot from.

I stand by what I said.

And, MN does NOT have "breaking and entering." The burglary statute covers entry to commit a crime.

[jshuberg]

In MN a person can legally use force, including deadly force, to prevent a felony from being committed in the home. You do not have to be in fear of your life. It's called defense of dwelling, and the requirements are:
1) To prevent a felony from being committed in the home.
2) No lesser force will do.

The best thing you can do is forget that this exists. View this as another tool your lawyer has if you shoot someone in self defense in your home.

If you shoot someone for trying to steal $2000 worth of property, or for committing tax fraud, etc. you are going to end up spending tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to stay out of prison. If the intruder turns out to be Treyvon Martin, and you end up with Jessie Jackson and friends rallying against you, your life will pretty much be ruined. If you fear burglary, get home owners or renters insurance. There is absolutely no upside to shooting someone for anything other than self defense. You may feel violated watching a burglar leaving with your stuff, and you may feel the desire to punish him for being so stupid as to think he could get away with robbing you. Think ahead on this though, you may feel differently about shooting the burglar a year later after you have lost your job, most of your friends, your life savings, and possibly the very home you were defending. Not to mention the psychological trauma of killing another human being.

Here's a good rule of thumb - if a person who breaks into your house tries to get away when he realizes he's not alone, let him leave and call the cops. He has demonstrated he is not a threat to you and is not worth ruining your life over. If he advances towards you, now you have a problem. The fact that he is in your house illegally, and is now moving toward you is reason to believe he intends to cause a felony assault resulting in great bodily harm or death. Do everything you can to eliminate the threat without hesitation.

Something else to think about. The hypothetical situation where a drunk breaks into your house or apartment thinking it's actually his house. Just because he's drunk, and apparently made a drunken mistake doesn't mean he isn't capable of causing you great bodily harm or death. He may very well be armed. If not, he might grab a kitchen knife, or fire poker, etc and try to bean you on the head with it. If he's plastered enough to think he's in his own house, he could very well be plastered enough to think *you* are the intruder, and he might attack you for being in *his* house. If he tries to get away, let him. If he advances toward you, defend yourself.

There is only one situation where I would use lethal force to prevent a burglary, and that is if the burglar managed to break into my gun safe and is trying to steal my firearms. I do not want any of my guns to end up in the hands of criminals who could use them to kill innocent people. This is the only property crime that I am willing to use deadly force to prevent. This is a personal decision of mine, not necessarily a recommendation.

[justaguy]

Havent we been down this road before, Gents?

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=8177&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=trinitron

viewtopic.php?f=37&t=5088&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=trinitron

Stop it, this is not the place for reason or logic. The Internet is serious business, Al Gore said so.

I like the way you think.

[justaguy]

There is only one situation where I would use lethal force to prevent a burglary, and that is if the burglar managed to break into my gun safe and is trying to steal my firearms. I do not want any of my guns to end up in the hands of criminals who could use them to kill innocent people. This is the only property crime that I am willing to use deadly force to prevent. This is a personal decision of mine, not necessarily a recommendation.

What if the burglar had a hammer/crowbar/bat/knife and you had no means of escape and your child was in a different room?

How do you know it is "just" a burglary and not a home invasion with the intent to kidnap/kill you and/or your family?

[2beer]

[jshuberg]

What if the burglar had a hammer/crowbar/bat/knife and you had no means of escape and your child was in a different room?

How do you know it is "just" a burglary and not a home invasion with the intent to kidnap/kill you and/or your family?

It all depends on what the burglar does when he realizes he is not alone. If he immediately tries to run away, I'll let him go and call the cops. I might follow him at a distance to get a license plate or see which direction he is going while online with 911. If he does not run away, if he advances on anyone, or gives me any indication he is armed I will defend myself and anyone else in the house. The point is I don't want to suffer the aftermath of having shot someone to protect my laptop, etc.

Either way though, if I ever suspect that there is an intruder in my house, I will arm myself and be ready to defend myself if necessary. I will give him the option of leaving without being shot, but if he doesn't take it, then he will have to suffer the consequences of the situation that he created.

[justaguy]

What if the burglar had a hammer/crowbar/bat/knife and you had no means of escape and your child was in a different room?

How do you know it is "just" a burglary and not a home invasion with the intent to kidnap/kill you and/or your family?

It all depends on what the burglar does when he realizes he is not alone. If he immediately tries to run away, even if he has some of my property (firearms excluded), I'll let him go and call the cops. I might follow him at a distance to get a license plate or see which direction he is going while online with 911. If he does not run away, if he advances on anyone, or gives me any indication he is armed I will defend myself and anyone else in the house. The point is I don't want to suffer the aftermath of having shot someone to protect my laptop, etc.

Either way though, the instant I suspect that there is an intruder in my house, I will arm myself and be ready to defend myself if necessary. I will give him the option of leaving without being shot, but if he doesn't take it, then he will have to suffer the consequences of the situation that he created.

Oh. I'm pretty sure everyone else was just talking about shooting first and asking questions later.

[jshuberg]

Oh. I'm pretty sure everyone else was just talking about shooting first and asking questions later.

Sounds pretty simple to me. Come in my house in the middle of the night uninvited or unexpected and you will pay for it. I won't take the chance for you to be a bad guy wanting to do harm to my family. So YES it is that simple.

[Scott Notaeh]

609.582 BURGLARY.

Subdivision 1.Burglary in the first degree. Whoever enters a building without consent and with intent to commit a crime, or enters a building without consent and commits a crime while in the building, either directly or as an accomplice, commits burglary in the first degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 20 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $35,000, or both, if:
(a) the building is a dwelling and another person, not an accomplice, is present in it when the burglar enters or at any time while the burglar is in the building;

(b) the burglar possesses, when entering or at any time while in the building, any of the following: a dangerous weapon, any article used or fashioned in a manner to lead the victim to reasonably believe it to be a dangerous weapon, or an explosive; or

(c) the burglar assaults a person within the building or on the building's appurtenant property.

Looks like if someone enters my house with intent to commit a crime and I am home, it is a felony.

[jshuberg]

Looks like if someone enters my house with intent to commit a crime and I am home, it is a felony.

Correct, and according to 'defense of dwelling' you can use force, including deadly force, to prevent any felony from occurring in your home. It's still a good idea to give the intruder an opportunity to leave though - just because it's legal doesn't mean it can't ruin your life.

[Heffay]

Looks like if someone enters my house with intent to commit a crime and I am home, it is a felony.

Correct, and according to 'defense of dwelling' you can use force, including deadly force, to prevent any felony from occurring in your home. It's still a good idea to give the intruder an opportunity to leave though - just because it's legal doesn't mean it can't ruin your life.

How can you determine intent by looks alone?

[jshuberg]

How can you determine intent by looks alone?

You can determine intent by actions. If he tries to run away when confronted, it's better to let him than pay the attorney fees involved in making a defense of dwelling claim.

[Heffay]

How can you determine intent by looks alone?

You can determine intent by actions. If he tries to run away when confronted, it's better to let him than pay the attorney fees involved in making a defense of dwelling claim.

A lot of operators here talk about how he *could* be running to his car to grab a gun so they can come back and finish off their children and raping the dogs...

Just seems to be a lot of chest thumping here about how they'll gun down anyone in their house that wasn't invited in. Not exactly sure what the people posting things like that are trying to prove. ***** size?