Echoes of Trayvon Martin in Wisconsin shooting

[2beer]

How can you determine intent by looks alone?

You can determine intent by actions. If he tries to run away when confronted, it's better to let him than pay the attorney fees involved in making a defense of dwelling claim.

A lot of operators here talk about how he *could* be running to his car to grab a gun so they can come back and finish off their children and raping the dogs...

Just seems to be a lot of chest thumping here about how they'll gun down anyone in their house that wasn't invited in. Not exactly sure what the people posting things like that are trying to prove. ***** size?

I keed I keed

[gwilley1]

How can you determine intent by looks alone?

You can determine intent by actions. If he tries to run away when confronted, it's better to let him than pay the attorney fees involved in making a defense of dwelling claim.

A lot of operators here talk about how he *could* be running to his car to grab a gun so they can come back and finish off their children and raping the dogs...

Just seems to be a lot of chest thumping here about how they'll gun down anyone in their house that wasn't invited in. Not exactly sure what the people posting things like that are trying to prove. ***** size?

Like i said:

Hopefully he runs away. Then there won't be any 'splainin' to do. I have small children and if you break into my home. You are a threat and I will deal with it accordingly. Letting you know I am armed is the first step. After that I won't let you endanger my wife or kids if you decide to proceed. I am not out to kill anyone but I won't stand by and be a victim.

I have nothing to prove to anyone. If you have to second guess your actions they are probably wrong. If you second guess and he has a gun and wants to do you harm you will end up in the hospital or morgue. I AM MENTALLY PREPARED TO DEFEND MY FAMILY, Are You?

[Heffay]

I have nothing to prove to anyone. If you have to second guess your actions they are probably wrong. If you second guess and he has a gun and wants to do you harm you will end up in the hospital or morgue. I AM MENTALLY PREPARED TO DEFEND MY FAMILY, Are You?

Nope. In fact I plan on using my wife to soak up a few bullets, giving me time to jump out the 3rd floor window.

But hey, I'm sure your way will work just fine for you and your family too.

[justaguy]

I have nothing to prove to anyone. If you have to second guess your actions they are probably wrong. If you second guess and he has a gun and wants to do you harm you will end up in the hospital or morgue. I AM MENTALLY PREPARED TO DEFEND MY FAMILY, Are You?

Nope. In fact I plan on using my wife to soak up a few bullets, giving me time to jump out the 3rd floor window.

But hey, I'm sure your way will work just fine for you and your family too.

Typical.

[justaguy]

Oh. I'm pretty sure everyone else was just talking about shooting first and asking questions later.

Sounds pretty simple to me. Come in my house in the middle of the night uninvited or unexpected and you will pay for it. I won't take the chance for you to be a bad guy wanting to do harm to my family. So YES it is that simple.

Yeah, thats what I said.

[tazdevil]

Sounds pretty simple to me. Come in my house in the middle of the night uninvited or unexpected and you will pay for it. I won't take the chance for you to be a bad guy wanting to do harm to my family. So YES it is that simple.

Just so you know, someone who enters your house without consent, and does nothing else, has only committed a misdemeanor Trespass. The felony part is committing a crime while inside. Kill them, and you will definitely have some 'splainin' to do.

I'm trying to figure out, for the life of me, why there's so much defense for the "poor drunk or confused person" that tries to break into someone's home, and would end up being shot as a result. Even totally wasted, I believe you are still completely accountable for your actions (after all you chose to get wasted, so you have to deal with your actions after). At 2 am, if someone's breaking in and I've already called 911, with kids on 2 levels of a split level house that puts a few of them in potential harms way, ending any need for me to ask "excuse me sir, I believe you may have the wrong house". At what point did my or my families safety need to take a 2nd row seat to verifying if someone breaking into our house is misguided or there to commit bad acts? Stopping to ask why they are there gives them time to potentially do harm to me or my family!

[gwilley1]

Sounds pretty simple to me. Come in my house in the middle of the night uninvited or unexpected and you will pay for it. I won't take the chance for you to be a bad guy wanting to do harm to my family. So YES it is that simple.

Just so you know, someone who enters your house without consent, and does nothing else, has only committed a misdemeanor Trespass. The felony part is committing a crime while inside. Kill them, and you will definitely have some 'splainin' to do.

I'm trying to figure out, for the life of me, why there's so much defense for the "poor drunk or confused person" that tries to break into someone's home, and would end up being shot as a result. Even totally wasted, I believe you are still completely accountable for your actions (after all you chose to get wasted, so you have to deal with your actions after). At 2 am, if someone's breaking in and I've already called 911, with kids on 2 levels of a split level house that puts a few of them in potential harms way, ending any need for me to ask "excuse me sir, I believe you may have the wrong house". At what point did my or my families safety need to take a 2nd row seat to verifying if someone breaking into our house is misguided or there to commit bad acts? Stopping to ask why they are there gives them time to potentially do harm to me or my family!

+1000

[infidel]

I'm trying to figure out, for the life of me, why there's so much defense for the "poor drunk or confused person" that tries to break into someone's home, and would end up being shot as a result. Even totally wasted, I believe you are still completely accountable for your actions (after all you chose to get wasted, so you have to deal with your actions after). At 2 am, if someone's breaking in and I've already called 911, with kids on 2 levels of a split level house that puts a few of them in potential harms way, ending any need for me to ask "excuse me sir, I believe you may have the wrong house". At what point did my or my families safety need to take a 2nd row seat to verifying if someone breaking into our house is misguided or there to commit bad acts? Stopping to ask why they are there gives them time to potentially do harm to me or my family!

Maybe you will lobby for laws that will allow you to shoot anyone who enters your abode. The point is the present laws are not necessarily in your favor to do so now.

[justaguy]

Let's just calm down here and all take a step back.

[gyrfalcon]

Sweet Jesus. I was referring to the case at hand. You boys sure do like to pick it apart. I'm pretty sure your average Alzheimer's patient won't bust the door down or knock a window out to get into your house either. Despite my "simple" comment I think a little judgement and self control from the occupant of the house/apartment/townhouse/dwelling/residence goes along ways.

A number of drunk people have been shot when they broke into a house they though was their own. The main difference between an Alzheimer patient and a drunk is that the drunks condition is self-inflicted. There are plenty of violent and non-violent people who may try to trespass on to private property for a variety of reasons both lawful and unlawful.

The onus to determine the legitimacy of others actions should not be at the detriment of a property owner.

I think we should start a thread about the book "Of Mice and Men", and its legal aspects.

[tazdevil]

I'm trying to figure out, for the life of me, why there's so much defense for the "poor drunk or confused person" that tries to break into someone's home, and would end up being shot as a result. Even totally wasted, I believe you are still completely accountable for your actions (after all you chose to get wasted, so you have to deal with your actions after). At 2 am, if someone's breaking in and I've already called 911, with kids on 2 levels of a split level house that puts a few of them in potential harms way, ending any need for me to ask "excuse me sir, I believe you may have the wrong house". At what point did my or my families safety need to take a 2nd row seat to verifying if someone breaking into our house is misguided or there to commit bad acts? Stopping to ask why they are there gives them time to potentially do harm to me or my family!

Maybe you will lobby for laws that will allow you to shoot anyone who enters your abode. The point is the present laws are not necessarily in your favor to do so now.

I'm not looking for permission/laws to shoot "anyone" that enters my abode. But someone who breaks in has made their choice by breaking in. When we excuse criminal behavior with the "they had no ill will" or "they never had a chance growing up" crap, we just further enable and protect the criminal element, instead of innocent victims. As far as lobbying, I have wrote a few letters, called many in congress.

Let's just calm down here and all take a step back.

Why, because the holes in your arguments are getting too big?

[justaguy]

I'm trying to figure out, for the life of me, why there's so much defense for the "poor drunk or confused person" that tries to break into someone's home, and would end up being shot as a result. Even totally wasted, I believe you are still completely accountable for your actions (after all you chose to get wasted, so you have to deal with your actions after). At 2 am, if someone's breaking in and I've already called 911, with kids on 2 levels of a split level house that puts a few of them in potential harms way, ending any need for me to ask "excuse me sir, I believe you may have the wrong house". At what point did my or my families safety need to take a 2nd row seat to verifying if someone breaking into our house is misguided or there to commit bad acts? Stopping to ask why they are there gives them time to potentially do harm to me or my family!

Maybe you will lobby for laws that will allow you to shoot anyone who enters your abode. The point is the present laws are not necessarily in your favor to do so now.

I'm not looking for permission/laws to shoot "anyone" that enters my abode. But someone who breaks in has made their choice by breaking in. When we excuse criminal behavior with the "they had no ill will" or "they never had a chance growing up" crap, we just further enable and protect the criminal element, instead of innocent victims. As far as lobbying, I have wrote a few letters, called many in congress.

Let's just calm down here and all take a step back.

Why, because the holes in your arguments are getting too big?

I think you need to take a step back, take a deep breath, and calm down.

Shoot first is never the answer.

[bulletproof]

Shoot first is never the answer.

So you're not a fan of recon by fire?

[Scott Notaeh]

Shoot first is never the answer.

So you're not a fan of recon by fire?

I always wanna shoot before the other guy shoots. Especially during duals.

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[CarryCauseICan]

How quickly is forgot, the Krueger family near Waseca a few years back.