George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

[jshuberg]

Let's presume for a moment that Zimmerman's account of the incident is correct. This seems more and more likely as evidence is dribbled out to the public, but I absolutely acknowledge that it might not be. Whether true or not, as a thought experiment let's presume that Zimmerman's account is 100% correct:

Why is it the press and the public at large still placing the blame on Zimmerman for Martin's death? Even those who apparently are taking his side are framing their argument around the idea that while it was Zimmerman's fault Martin is dead, that it was justified under the law. If Zimmerman's story is true, then Martin is the only one to blame for his death. Even if Zimmerman is a racist, if he profiled Martin, the fact he followed him etc. did not result in Martin's death. Martin choosing to attack Zimmerman with sufficient violence that he felt his life was in danger is the only reason that he is dead.

I've been followed by people before. I don't know if it was because they were considering robbing me, or they mistook me for someone else, etc. All I know is it creeped me out. I went to my car as directly and quickly as possible and got out of there. What I did *not* do is give them the slip, only to circle around and jump them, and then proceed to beat the crap out of them because they dared to follow me. The encounter and my apprehension ended when they were no longer following me.

Martin was not innocent. He was the criminal, and this criminal activity was what resulted in him being shot. Everyone getting all upset that if Zimmerman would only have stayed in the car, not played renta-cop, etc. should really be focusing on the only actual illegal behavior that occurred. According to Zimmerman's account, Martin had already given him the slip, and he was walking back to his car when he was attacked. The encounter could and should have ended there. If Martin was in fear of his safety while he was being followed, that fear ended when he gave Zimmerman the slip. Martin is the one that chose to re-engage the encounter and to escalate it to violence. If Martin would not have acted like a thug, and would not have snuck up on and attacked Zimmerman, then he would still be alive.

If Zimmerman's account is true, then Martin really sounds like a thug who resorted to violence as as a way to solve problems. It's unlikely that Zimmerman was the first person he ever attacked without just cause, and if he had succeeded in beating Zimmerman's head into the pavement, it is unlikely that Zimmerman would have been the last. Even if Martin was doing absolutely nothing wrong at all when Zimmerman started tailing him, how he reacted to the situation was what got him killed, and is also telling of what kind of person he may have been.


Once again, consider the above nothing more than a thought experiment from the position that Zimmerman's account is 100% correct. It might not be, and if that's the case then the analysis above would also not be true. I don't want to imply that I have formed any kind of concrete opinion on the incident. However, I do think that this is a side of the story that has been notably absent in the discussions, and that should be considered by those interested in it. Especially if Zimmerman's account does turn out to be true.

[gyrfalcon]

I've been followed by people before. I don't know if it was because they were considering robbing me, or they mistook me for someone else, etc. All I know is it creeped me out. I went to my car as directly and quickly as possible and got out of there. What I did *not* do is give them the slip, only to circle around and jump them, and then proceed to beat the crap out of them because they dared to follow me. The encounter and my apprehension ended when they were no longer following me.

Who was your instructor? We all know you're suppose to whip out your gat and scream *DIE MUTHER @#$@ER!" in situations like this.

[jshuberg]

I know, I feel so ashamed.....

[gyrfalcon]

[XDM45]

Looks like some more information may come to light sooner vs. later, but time will tell what we see and when we see it.
http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/ ... oting?lite

[tman]

Zimmerman's re-enactment of the event.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news/47903601/#47903601

[jdege]

Zimmerman's re-enactment of the event.

If what happened matched that description, Zimmerman's use of deadly force in self-defense was clearly justified.

Which means that for the prosecutor to have been justified in filing second degree murder charges against Zimmerman, she'd better have convincing evidence that Zimmerman was lying.

[XDM45]

Zimmerman's re-enactment of the event.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nbc-news/47903601/#47903601

Another link with 2 videos on it, including the 15 minute re-enactment in full:
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... etail?lite

[XDM45]

Police say Zimmerman had chances to defuse situation before shooting Martin
http://openchannel.msnbc.msn.com/_news/ ... ing-martin

[jshuberg]

Police say Zimmerman had chances to defuse situation before shooting Martin

Once again, provided that Zimmerman's account was truthful, the police here are full of crap.

There was no "situation" to defuse until the encounter became violent. Could he have avoided the situation that led to the violent encounter? Absolutely, and he would have been well advised to do so. However, he did not break the law before being attacked, and therefore his lawful actions cannot be used as evidence of his being in the wrong. Maybe next they'll state that it was his fault for leaving his house in the first place. If Martin attacked him the way he claims, then he was not in a position to defuse the situation. If Martin went for his gun as he claims, then he was in fact in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death. He was being attacked with his own weapon, and had the legal right to use deadly force to defend himself.

Honestly, I still think Zimmerman was an idiot, and lying about his finances just underlines this. However, his story sounds credible given the evidence we have seen, and it sounds to me like he legally defended himself. If being an idiot was a crime, then that would be a different story.

The cops here seem to be bordering on keystone to me, the statements they've made don't seem to line up with the facts that have been released. They sound almost .... political.

[tman]

It's almost as if the cops are doing the exact thing they hate others to do. Monday morning quarterbacking.

It's NOT what the situation actually was, it's not the actual physical differences between the two; it's what GZ PERCEIVED them to be at the time.

[jgalt]

It's almost as if the cops are doing the exact thing they hate others to do. Monday morning quarterbacking.

It's NOT what the situation actually was, it's not the actual physical differences between the two; it's what GZ PERCEIVED them to be at the time.

...and more importantly, it is about whether or not at least one person on the jury (1) believes Zimmerman's story, and (2) that how he perceived the situation at the time was reasonable.

[gwilley1]

It's almost as if the cops are doing the exact thing they hate others to do. Monday morning quarterbacking.

It's NOT what the situation actually was, it's not the actual physical differences between the two; it's what GZ PERCEIVED them to be at the time.

+1

[MisterOblivious]

The second bond hearing was today. Bail is granted but the judge's order is absolutely scathing.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/99210750/Zimmerman-Bail

Although there is no record of flight to avoid prosecution, this Court finds that the circumstances indicate that the Defendant was preparing to flee to avoid prosecution, but such plans were thwarted;

Apparently lying to a judge about how much money you have and then structuring withdrawls to avoid IRS reporting while holding a second passport is a bad idea. It looks to me that the only reason bail was granted is that Zimmerman isn't a danger to the community.

[Heffay]

How do you even get a 2nd passport? Do you just have to claim you lost your first one?

It would have been sad if he did manage to flee with all the money people donated to his defense fund.