Tray-Tray's School Disicipline Records &Facebook 2B released

[Heffay]

Refresh my memory. Where does it say that motive is a required condition for battery to occur?

When you're trying to prove someone was committing a crime?

[Paul]

Refresh my memory. Where does it say that motive is a required condition for battery to occur?

When you're trying to prove someone was committing a crime?

If I get caught stealing a TV from K-Mart, does it matter why I stole it?

[Jeff Bergquist]

Refresh my memory, if you will. Which of the 2 gentlemen involved in this incident had a history of getting in trouble with the law?

Both, IIRC

That's my understanding as well, although with Martin having been a juvenile, my understanding is based on hearsay.

None of this is provable by me, but my opinion based on what I've heard about his school record and his facebook page which was wiped almost immediately after the incident but not quite quickly enough, is that the evidence will indicate that Martin was a junior thug in training who got PO'ed at being followed and decided to put a beatdown on Zimmerman. This is just my opinion, which I'll happily change if the evidence winds up indicating something different.

[Heffay]

Refresh my memory. Where does it say that motive is a required condition for battery to occur?

When you're trying to prove someone was committing a crime?

If I get caught stealing a TV from K-Mart, does it matter why I stole it?

Yes. Without a motive, you're reduced to saying crime is done randomly.

The "why" always matters.

[sgruenhagen44]

Honestly, the case should be thrown out at this point. One of the claims made by the prosecution was that Martin was profiled for being black. The FBI investigated this claim, and concluded that race played no role. Zimmerman had defensive wounds, and witnesses stated that Martin was the attacker. The entire story sold to us by the press has turned out to be nothing but fabrication. What more do they need?

A motive to explain why Zimmerman was "attacked".

People don't always have a motive for attack thats the scary part

[Heffay]

People don't always have a motive for attack thats the scary part

There is *always* a motive. It can be mental illness which seems random at times.

[grousemaster]

You're a special lady, aren't you?

Leave the personal and sexist remarks off this forum please.

[sgruenhagen44]

You're a special lady, aren't you?

Leave the personal and sexist remarks off this forum please.

No joke. and by the way Heff. There were numerous random assaults in minneapolis this year. How about that random riot at MOA? As i young now law abiding citizen, I can tell you that some of the things I did in high school did not have a motive. Nothing like assault, but certainly some stupuid decisions. Plus a drug enduced rage or mental illness is not a "motive" it's just an explaination as to why it happened.. For me a motive is more or less the reason why you did what you did, what did you have to gain? Kinda of a grey area but I do think there is a difference.

[Heffay]

There were numerous random assaults in minneapolis this year. How about that random riot at MOA? As i young now law abiding citizen, I can tell you that some of the things I did in high school did not have a motive. Nothing like assault, but certainly some stupuid decisions. Plus a drug enduced rage or mental illness is not a "motive" it's just an explaination as to why it happened.. For me a motive is more or less the reason why you did what you did, what did you have to gain? Kinda of a grey area but I do think there is a difference.

It's not random. No more than a gun is "illegal".

[sgruenhagen44]

There were numerous random assaults in minneapolis this year. How about that random riot at MOA? As i young now law abiding citizen, I can tell you that some of the things I did in high school did not have a motive. Nothing like assault, but certainly some stupuid decisions. Plus a drug enduced rage or mental illness is not a "motive" it's just an explaination as to why it happened.. For me a motive is more or less the reason why you did what you did, what did you have to gain? Kinda of a grey area but I do think there is a difference.

It's not random. No more than a gun is "illegal".

You're going to have to elaborate...

[Heffay]

There were numerous random assaults in minneapolis this year. How about that random riot at MOA? As i young now law abiding citizen, I can tell you that some of the things I did in high school did not have a motive. Nothing like assault, but certainly some stupuid decisions. Plus a drug enduced rage or mental illness is not a "motive" it's just an explaination as to why it happened.. For me a motive is more or less the reason why you did what you did, what did you have to gain? Kinda of a grey area but I do think there is a difference.

It's not random. No more than a gun is "illegal".

You're going to have to elaborate...

An explanation as to why it happened is a motive. And since there is always a reason, "random" doesn't make any sense, since it is never truly random. There is an underlying reason that got the criminal to the time and place of the crime.

[Jeff Bergquist]

There were numerous random assaults in minneapolis this year. How about that random riot at MOA? As i young now law abiding citizen, I can tell you that some of the things I did in high school did not have a motive. Nothing like assault, but certainly some stupuid decisions. Plus a drug enduced rage or mental illness is not a "motive" it's just an explaination as to why it happened.. For me a motive is more or less the reason why you did what you did, what did you have to gain? Kinda of a grey area but I do think there is a difference.

It's not random. No more than a gun is "illegal".

My guess is part of the difficulty here is word definitions. IMO there's always a motive as well, but it doesn't have to make sense to anyone else. What seems like a random or nonsensical act would be because the perpetrator's motive seems nonsensical to others. A "random" act of vandalism or bullying might just be motivated by boredom or a desire for attention.

[Paul]

Yes. Without a motive, you're reduced to saying crime is done randomly.

The "why" always matters.

It doesn't always matter. It might matter to the human interest side of you. Maybe because you care about people and think they can be 'helped'... But motive isn't an element of a crime that I need to prove when charging someone. Intent might be, but not motive. They are two different things.

[sgruenhagen44]

eh, think what ya want. IMO if ya get beat up or killed and the person who did it did not benefeit from it in any way shape or form, then it was truly random. People suck and are stupid, they don't need a reason all the time to be dicks.

[Heffay]

Yes. Without a motive, you're reduced to saying crime is done randomly.

The "why" always matters.

It doesn't always matter. It might matter to the human interest side of you. Maybe because you care about people and think they can be 'helped'... But motive isn't an element of a crime that I need to prove when charging someone. Intent might be, but not motive. They are two different things.

I think what you mean to say is "The why doesn't matter to me."

The reason I care is because of money. Solving root causes is frequently cheaper than dealing with the symptoms.