New Photo of George Zimmerman released

[Humphrey Bogart]

"Heffay"...What's the English Translation of that word...is it 'Fart-Nozzle" ?????

The English translation of Heffay is actually "Joan Peterson."

[Heffay]

Ummmm, last I checked he *was* in fact charged with a crime. It kinda shows your understanding of stand your ground laws is false.

Like I said, he argued that he shouldn't be charged because of stand your ground. And by the letter of the law, it does allow you to shoot your way out of a situation you got yourself into.

I'd rather have the unwilling participant codified into the law. That way we don't have to rely on activist judges changing the intent of the law to suit their needs.

[Ron Burgundy]

Four pages and counting. Heffay FTW! LOLercopter

[Fearless Leader]

but he picked a fight and got his ass kicked as a result. So he is partially responsible for the consequences.

"Heffay"...What's the English Translation of that word...is it 'Fart-Nozzle" ?????

No, I think it is something like an an being "Anal Orifice"

[Mdclinks]

Criminally, you're probably right. Civilly, not so much. Zimmerman made choices that night that ended in the death of Martin. He made bad decisions, and Martin ended up dying partially as a result of that.

Ultimately, Martin's actions caused his death. I am not trying to dance on his grave. Whether Zimmerman provoked or instigated the altercation Martin escalated it to violence. You can't justify Zimmerman "getting his ass whooped" was deserved, when he was blitz attacked from behind. One party fought dirty while the other fought for his life. I really can't even imagine how anyone sees this as a crime purpitrated by Zimmerman with the evidence and the witness accounts backing his story.

[Humphrey Bogart]

[Heffay]

Criminally, you're probably right. Civilly, not so much. Zimmerman made choices that night that ended in the death of Martin. He made bad decisions, and Martin ended up dying partially as a result of that.

Ultimately, Martin's actions caused his death. I am not trying to dance on his grave. Whether Zimmerman provoked or instigated the altercation Martin escalated it to violence. You can't justify Zimmerman "getting his ass whooped" was deserved, when he was blitz attacked from behind. One party fought dirty while the other fought for his life. I really can't even imagine how anyone sees this as a crime purpitrated by Zimmerman with the evidence and the witness accounts backing his story.

Martin didn't attack Zimmerman for no reason. Martin isn't right in this situation either. Everyone is trying to find someone to blame for this incident, when they are both at fault for it. Martin has already paid the price for his part. Zimmerman isn't guilt free in this event. While he probably shouldn't be charged with murder, manslaughter may be a reasonable alternative and at the very least be susceptible to civil damages.

When one person makes a mistake, it's an accident. When two people make a mistake, it's news. This is clearly the latter example.

[jshuberg]

I'd rather have the unwilling participant codified into the law. That way we don't have to rely on activist judges changing the intent of the law to suit their needs.

Do you have a carry permit? Have you actually been taught the laws involving carrying a firearm, or do you just get your information on TV?

Being a reluctant participant *is* a requirement for the use of deadly force. How is it that you don't know that? This isn't memorizing statute details or being able to cite case law from memory. This is Sesame Street level ABCs for firearm carry. Everyone who owns or carries a firearm should know the fundamentals of when lethal force is legal, and when it is not.

I'm all up for a debate on carry laws and morality, etc. but your arguing from a place that only seems to exist in your head. Learn what the existing laws actually mean before presuming to lecture others on how they're wrong.

[Heffay]

I'd rather have the unwilling participant codified into the law. That way we don't have to rely on activist judges changing the intent of the law to suit their needs.

Do you have a carry permit? Have you actually been taught the laws involving carrying a firearm, or do you just get your information on TV?

I do. Paul was my instructor. Take it up with him if you think my training was negligent.

Being a reluctant participant *is* a requirement for the use of deadly force.

Well then, Zimmerman was rightly charged after all. The system works. He'll be able to defend his actions in front of a jury of his peers.

[cobb]

Paul was my instructor. Take it up with him if you think my training was negligent.

I don't see it as an issue with the training received, much more likely the willingness to understand and look objectively at what was presented. An instructor can do the best presentation possible, but there are those that will just not listen to the information, they already have their skewed understanding of the laws or facts and there is no changing that.

[jshuberg]

I'm absolutely certain that Paul teaches his students that one of the 4 criteria for use of lethal force is that you have to be a reluctant participant. The fact you didn't know that, and thought that "activist judges" get to decide tells me that perhaps you should go back for a refresher. Unless your just trolling, which would be fine since I think an analysis of this incident and the laws involved is a healthy conversation.

[Heffay]

I'm absolutely certain that Paul teaches his students that one of the 4 criteria for use of lethal force is that you have to be a reluctant participant. The fact you didn't know that, and thought that "activist judges" get to decide tells me that perhaps you should go back for a refresher. Unless your just trolling, which would be fine since I think an analysis of this incident and the laws involved is a healthy conversation.

Well, I didn't take his Florida class, so you could be right that those are the rules in Florida.

And regardless, it sounds like the process is going perfectly then. Zimmerman gets to show his innocence in front of a jury. Or more accurately, the state has to prove his guilt to a jury.

[Erud]

I do. Paul was my instructor. Take it up with him if you think my training was negligent.

Without even knowing it, you've just summed up a big part of liberal thinking:

Something's wrong with me? Ok, here's who's fault it is...

[Jeff Bergquist]

And regardless, it sounds like the process is going perfectly then. Zimmerman gets to show his innocence in front of a jury. Or more accurately, the state has to prove his guilt to a jury.

So what's the griping about then?

IMO the prosecution is in no hurry to try this case because they are pretty sure Zimmerman will beat it and they are afraid of the possible repercussions. (Think Rodney King, and job security.)

And, as I stated earlier, IMO the one criminally initiating violence bears the responsibility for the consequences, otherwise just being someplace can be considered a contributing factor for liability ala the non-sensical no fault insurance concept.

[Heffay]

And regardless, it sounds like the process is going perfectly then. Zimmerman gets to show his innocence in front of a jury. Or more accurately, the state has to prove his guilt to a jury.

So what's the griping about then?

My whole problem is with stand your ground as currently being discussed. I want an unwilling participant clause in it, instead of relying on previous court rulings implying that it exists. Now the state has to charge him despite his actions not violating the letter of the law. This is bad.

I also think that if you're going to become a vigilante, you should be susceptible to civil actions if you make bad decisions. Just like people are currently legally responsible for every other bad decision they may make. I don't see why getting in a gunfight should exempt you from those consequences any more than killing someone while driving drunk. If you really are an unwilling participant, stand your ground not only makes perfect sense, but it shouldn't even be necessary (although we all know it is). If you're running around looking for trouble, you better have a solid self defense case though.