Do people not know how to store firearms?

[Shipyard]

You really ARE on the rag.

Or...you're just a big cry-baby?

You're an ANGRY guy, aren't you.

How do you know you're not too 'ANGRY' to carry a firearm under a Minnesota Permit.

Here's a quick quiz to see if you need anger management counseling:

http://psychologytoday.tests.psychtests ... gTest=1298

10 questions 5 minutes.

Do you have difficulty controlling your temper? Does your anger come out in unhealthy ways that could hurt others as well as yourself? Anger is a powerful emotion that can lead to serious problems in your relationships and career if left unbridled. Learn more about your ability to manage it by taking this anger test. It's designed to evaluate the manner in which you approach and handle anger-inducing situations.

You really don't give two ******* about who's grave you piss on do you?

Nice troll job. Nice personal attack twisted back at me too. Way to show your true self.

I hope you never have to know what this family is going through. How sad this thread is.

[Humphrey Bogart]

You really ARE on the rag.

Or...you're just a big cry-baby?

You're an ANGRY guy, aren't you.

How do you know you're not too 'ANGRY' to carry a firearm under a Minnesota Permit.

Here's a quick quiz to see if you need anger management counseling:

http://psychologytoday.tests.psychtests ... gTest=1298

10 questions 5 minutes.

Do you have difficulty controlling your temper? Does your anger come out in unhealthy ways that could hurt others as well as yourself? Anger is a powerful emotion that can lead to serious problems in your relationships and career if left unbridled. Learn more about your ability to manage it by taking this anger test. It's designed to evaluate the manner in which you approach and handle anger-inducing situations.

You really don't give two ******* about who's grave you piss on do you?

Nice troll job. Nice personal attack twisted back at me too. Way to show your true self.

I hope you never have to know what this family is going through. How sad this thread is.

It's probably a safe bet that 'In Real Life' you're NOT an ASS.

Think about the anger thing though.

Angry man + Firearm = not good.

I'm going to STFU now.

[GunGoogler]

I'm going to STFU now.

IMHO, you should lead with this next time.

[photogpat]

IMHO, you should lead with this next time.

+1 I agree.

[20mm]

There are other laws on endangerment of a child if you're going to nitpick and be silly.

No one's being silly, but when quoting the criminal law, it's important to be precise. Your description above of MN 609.666 was inaccurate.

I left out a single word and have updated my comment.

"Yash Xiong said they were told that it was all right to keep the gun loaded, but to ensure that the safety catch was on."

[bstrawse]

There are other laws on endangerment of a child if you're going to nitpick and be silly.

No one's being silly, but when quoting the criminal law, it's important to be precise. Your description above of MN 609.666 was inaccurate.

I left out a single word and have updated my comment.

"Yash Xiong said they were told that it was all right to keep the gun loaded, but to ensure that the safety catch was on."

More precisely:

A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor who negligently stores or leaves a loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access, unless reasonable action is taken to secure the firearm against access by the child.

It is perfectly legal to allow a child access to a loaded firearm in a manner that is not negligent... like at a gun range under supervision, etc.

Single words matter in criminal and civil law.

B

[bstrawse]

Double tap - sorry about that.
b

[20mm]

Of course word matter. There are also other laws to be aware of such as https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=609.378

In the context of this shooting is anyone on this forum going to argue this wasn't caused by negligence? In light of the new information that would be really silly.

[Holland&Holland]

Of course word matter. There are also other laws to be aware of such as https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=609.378

In the context of this shooting is anyone on this forum going to argue this wasn't caused by negligence? In light of the new information that would be really silly.

Dude, a child is dead, take a moment to morn before you get out your lynching rope.

[photogpat]

Of course word matter. There are also other laws to be aware of such as https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=609.378

In the context of this shooting is anyone on this forum going to argue this wasn't caused by negligence? In light of the new information that would be really silly.

Dude, a child is dead, take a moment to morn before you get out your lynching rope.

I think H&H's comment above ^^^^ was all that Shippy was asking for. Much like we slam the anti's for dancing in the blood, I think we should resist the urge to rush to condemn others during a tragedy as well.

[20mm]

Of course word matter. There are also other laws to be aware of such as https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=609.378

In the context of this shooting is anyone on this forum going to argue this wasn't caused by negligence? In light of the new information that would be really silly.

Dude, a child is dead, take a moment to morn before you get out your lynching rope.

Children die all the time, and I don't have a lynching rope. The county attorney office has already stated what sort of sentencing they believe will be given.

[xd ED]

Of course word matter. There are also other laws to be aware of such as https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/sta ... id=609.378

In the context of this shooting is anyone on this forum going to argue this wasn't caused by negligence? In light of the new information that would be really silly.

Dude, a child is dead, take a moment to morn before you get out your lynching rope.

Children die all the time, and I don't have a lynching rope. The county attorney office has already stated what sort of sentencing they believe will be given.

Sentencing?
isn't there first those details of charging and convicting someone?
This is unquestionably a tragedy, and probably a chargeable offense. I don't see the value of completely destroying this family by jailing a parent. Nor can the law punish them to a greater extent than they have done to them self. In a similar case, the responsible adult was sentenced to community service; learning, then teaching gun safety. this might better serve everyone.

[MNGunGuy]

No one's being silly, but when quoting the criminal law, it's important to be precise.

More precisely:

A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor who negligently stores or leaves a loaded firearm in a location where the person knows, or reasonably should know, that a child is likely to gain access, unless reasonable action is taken to secure the firearm against access by the child.

It is perfectly legal to allow a child access to a loaded firearm in a manner that is not negligent... like at a gun range under supervision, etc.

Single words matter in criminal and civil law.

Correct, but the statute you quoted does not address allowing children under the age of 18 to possess a pistol or assault rifle. Like you said, every word counts and it's clear that the statute you quoted covers stores or leaves. The statute that addresses allowing possession is 624.713.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/?id=624.713

624.713 CERTAIN PERSONS NOT TO POSSESS FIREARMS.
Subdivision 1.Ineligible persons. The following persons shall not be entitled to possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon or, except for clause (1), any other firearm:
(1) a person under the age of 18 years except that a person under 18 may carry or possess a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon (i) in the actual presence or under the direct supervision of the person's parent or guardian, (ii) for the purpose of military drill under the auspices of a legally recognized military organization and under competent supervision, (iii) for the purpose of instruction, competition, or target practice on a firing range approved by the chief of police or county sheriff in whose jurisdiction the range is located and under direct supervision; or (iv) if the person has successfully completed a course designed to teach marksmanship and safety with a pistol or semiautomatic military-style assault weapon and approved by the commissioner of natural resources;

[yukonjasper]

Something like this will likely destroy the family - hard to imagine living with that sort of pain. Accidents happen and when kids are involved its horrible. Regardless of who's fault it is, its a bad deal.

Sorta sad that our society seems to be so geared to placing blame somewhere - someone has to go down for the bad thing that happens. Trust me, there are alot of people going down on this and it will only be partially due to legal consequences. I can't imagine the damage this will do to that family. Truly tragic. I don't think there is any need to pile on- sympathy and empathy need to be the order of the day.

Thoughts and prayers to the family.

[20mm]

isn't there first those details of charging and convicting someone?
This is unquestionably a tragedy, and probably a chargeable offense. I don't see the value of completely destroying this family by jailing a parent. Nor can the law punish them to a greater extent than they have done to them self. In a similar case, the responsible adult was sentenced to community service; learning, then teaching gun safety. this might better serve everyone.

The children's father, Lue Xiong, pleaded guilty to negligent storage of a loaded firearm within access of a child. He's scheduled to be sentenced on Dec. 13.

Dennis Gerhardstein, a spokesman for the Ramsey County attorney's office, said that Lue Xiong is likely to be sentenced to community service relating to gun-safety education.

According to the article he has already pleaded guilty.