This is getting ridiculous!

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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby tazdevil on Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:01 pm

selurcspi wrote:Does anyone want to bet this murderer:-

Participated in no adult organized activities (except for perhaps Band/Choir) growing up!
Lives in his parent’s basement (at least still at home)!
Watches lots of violent Movies!
Has spent 20 to 40 hour per week playing violent video games for the last 10 years!

These are all noted factors in the perpetrators of ALL of the mass killings since the first one in Jonesboro AR.

As a reference see - Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill : A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence [Hardcover]
Gloria Degaetano & Dave Grossman

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Teaching-Our-Kids-Kill/dp/0609606131



But therein lies the problem if you believe that's to blame for this. Do you start banning these types of movies/video games etc? What's the difference then between banning that and banning negative comments about our President etc.? Or banning any weapon whatsoever? At some point, as has been pointed out, PEOPLE NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS/INACTIONS! Or in other words, live by some rules! :rulez:
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby GunClasses.Net on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:05 am

tazdevil wrote:
selurcspi wrote:Does anyone want to bet this murderer:-

Participated in no adult organized activities (except for perhaps Band/Choir) growing up!
Lives in his parent’s basement (at least still at home)!
Watches lots of violent Movies!
Has spent 20 to 40 hour per week playing violent video games for the last 10 years!

These are all noted factors in the perpetrators of ALL of the mass killings since the first one in Jonesboro AR.

As a reference see - Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill : A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence [Hardcover]
Gloria Degaetano & Dave Grossman

http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Teaching-Our-Kids-Kill/dp/0609606131



But therein lies the problem if you believe that's to blame for this. Do you start banning these types of movies/video games etc? What's the difference then between banning that and banning negative comments about our President etc.? Or banning any weapon whatsoever? At some point, as has been pointed out, PEOPLE NEED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS/INACTIONS! Or in other words, live by some rules! :rulez:



Kind of like, "Why can't people just be crazy? What about Adolph Hitler? What was in HIS cd case?" - Chris Rock

While Chris makes a valid argument, it's incomplete. If nothing else, continually putting violent images and suggestions into people desensitizes some people who are prone to violent behaviors. Notice I said PRONE to violence. Take someone with mental conditions favorable to committing violent acts, then give him/her input to visualize the violence, think about the violence, dwell on the violence, imagine the violence - what do you think is going to happen? Now, all this violence-prone person thinks about is ... violence. Are they not more likely to go "do as they think"? Notice, too, that I'm talking about the violence-prone person. Maybe it doesn't affect YOU, but that doesn't mean someone else won't respond to it differently. When it affects the person's attitude, then it becomes programming to influence his/her decision-making. This is all just basic Psychology. Whether its violent input or psycho drugs or whatever that triggers something inside certain people, it only takes a few people to respond for the 'system' to shut down the rights of the general public, and whatever our opinions on the impact of violence, that is the important thing to be watchful of in these times we live.

But, for a moment just think about it from the other side of the equation; if you have someone who's obsessed with anything (violence or whatever), what kind of therapy is going to help that person? Shovel more of that at them? Ok, so it's not going to help. Doesn't have to be just violence that works this way. Could be may things, for example, child porn... Child molesters need to likewise be held accountable, but giving them child porn in jail is not going to rehabilitate them, is it! Show most people child porn and they'll be disgusted at it; but we know that to some, it kindles a kind of evil response. Why would violence be any different?

As a man thinketh, so is he...

We don't need to ban anything. We just need to stop encouraging it! I stopped giving my money to most of Hollywood a long time ago for that reason. I can take responsibility for my decision, but I doubt I have any right to force others to do what I believe is moral. If I could even make them do what I think is moral, their compliance would mean little because it's forced. I certainly cannot make them believe as I believe about morality. We have to change people's perceptions, not their actions. So, go ahead Hollyweird, produce a violent movie; if it has no demand, it will go nowhere and more like it will not be made. But, that's not how it works... people go give their financial support to these things, thinking it doesn't matter. It's as if no drop thinks it's responsible for the flood. Maybe some day, people will realize that if they want society to be different, they themselves have to THINK differently.

...sent from my mom's basement after choir practice...
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby selurcspi on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:35 am

Gunclasses.net,

Thanks for saving me from giving a similar explanation.

The upshot is this stuff affects CHILDREN in their formative years, much more that adults. While it should not be banned for the general populace, the quantity of violence children are exposed to should be limited, unless they are provided with a rationalization of what the screen violence is and where it fits on a moral scale. In short, parents need to do their job and not allow the boob tube and computer be the baby sitter.
Also, this line of thinking is appropriate in that while not all kids who are exposed to this stuff will become killers, all of these killers came from the pool of kids who were exposed to this screen violence.

Also, to be able to make an informed decision, the book is worth a read.

Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill : A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence [Hardcover]
Gloria Degaetano & Dave Grossman
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby GunClasses.Net on Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:51 am

selurcspi wrote:Gunclasses.net,

Thanks for saving me from giving a similar explanation.

The upshot is this stuff affects CHILDREN in their formative years, much more that adults. While it should not be banned for the general populace, the quantity of violence children are exposed to should be limited, unless they are provided with a rationalization of what the screen violence is and where it fits on a moral scale. In short, parents need to do their job and not allow the boob tube and computer be the baby sitter.
Also, this line of thinking is appropriate in that while not all kids who are exposed to this stuff will become killers, all of these killers came from the pool of kids who were exposed to this screen violence.

Also, to be able to make an informed decision, the book is worth a read.

Stop Teaching Our Kids to Kill : A Call to Action Against TV, Movie and Video Game Violence [Hardcover]
Gloria Degaetano & Dave Grossman


Ahhhh, and I never even thought of that part of it! So, kind of like how not everyone who takes a drink becomes an alcoholic, but I think (?) kids who start to drink are more likely to become alcoholics; is that true?

I'm aware of a 3rd grader who likes to play Call of Duty. Man, does that freak me out. I read that that kind of stuff was cutting-edge 'desensitization training' years ago.

Remember, all it takes is for the seed to sprout in a few people prone to grow it - when they walk into a mall and start shooting, the rest of us get to deal with the new laws that pass in the emotional aftermath of that tragedy. We all have an interest in prevention.
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby tman on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:22 am

selurcspi wrote:Gunclasses.net,

Thanks for saving me from giving a similar explanation.

The upshot is this stuff affects CHILDREN in their formative years, much more that adults. While it should not be banned for the general populace, the quantity of violence children are exposed to should be limited, unless they are provided with a rationalization of what the screen violence is and where it fits on a moral scale. In short, parents need to do their job and not allow the boob tube and computer be the baby sitter.
Also, this line of thinking is appropriate in that while not all kids who are exposed to this stuff will become killers, all of these killers came from the pool of kids who were exposed to this screen violence.

Also, to be able to make an informed decision, the book is worth a read.



Let's be honest. Responsible parents DO NOT need to read this book.

Irresponsible parents won't.
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby selurcspi on Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:13 pm

tman wrote:
selurcspi wrote:Gunclasses.net,

Thanks for saving me from giving a similar explanation.

The upshot is this stuff affects CHILDREN in their formative years, much more that adults. While it should not be banned for the general populace, the quantity of violence children are exposed to should be limited, unless they are provided with a rationalization of what the screen violence is and where it fits on a moral scale. In short, parents need to do their job and not allow the boob tube and computer be the baby sitter.
Also, this line of thinking is appropriate in that while not all kids who are exposed to this stuff will become killers, all of these killers came from the pool of kids who were exposed to this screen violence.

Also, to be able to make an informed decision, the book is worth a read.



Let's be honest. Responsible parents DO NOT need to read this book.

Irresponsible parents won't.


If we all understand the situation, we can collectively prssure the powers that be to conreol the purveyors of violent entertainment, in the same way as the porn industry is governed. Allowble for Adults, but not for children.
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby tletourneau on Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:00 pm

The rating systems already exist for games and videos. Stores are supposed to check I'D's at time of purchase and online retailers ensure that the purchaser is old enough because a credit card is used for the transaction (the same way adult websites verify age from what I'm told). I'm not sure what the "powers that be" could be expected to do beyond what has been done.

It is up to parents to determine what is appropriate for their children whether I agree with it or not. I may not agree with a three year old playing a violent video game but that's up to his parents to make that choice.

Just my .2

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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby TTS on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:05 am

Let's get this thread back on track. It seems the Oregon mall shooter killed himself after seeing a permit holder pointing a gun at himself.

"I know after he saw me I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby bstrawse on Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:48 am

tletourneau wrote:The rating systems already exist for games and videos. Stores are supposed to check I'D's at time of purchase and online retailers ensure that the purchaser is old enough because a credit card is used for the transaction (the same way adult websites verify age from what I'm told). I'm not sure what the "powers that be" could be expected to do beyond what has been done.

It is up to parents to determine what is appropriate for their children whether I agree with it or not. I may not agree with a three year old playing a violent video game but that's up to his parents to make that choice.

Just my .2

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The rating system is voluntary but it's enforced by nearly every store I'm aware of. I believe that mandatory legislation around this passed in at least one state (Indiana) - but was later struck down as unconstitutional.

I don't believe that violent video games are a contributing cause of the problem
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby Jeff Bergquist on Sat Dec 15, 2012 11:04 am

bstrawse wrote:The rating system is voluntary but it's enforced by nearly every store I'm aware of. I believe that mandatory legislation around this passed in at least one state (Indiana) - but was later struck down as unconstitutional.


If violent video games are indeed part of the problem, the problem with controlling access to them isn't then with "the system" but with the fact that most parents don't consider video game violence to be a problem, and are happy to supply them to their kids if it buys them some peace and quiet.
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby Heffay on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:52 pm

Jeff Bergquist wrote:
bstrawse wrote:The rating system is voluntary but it's enforced by nearly every store I'm aware of. I believe that mandatory legislation around this passed in at least one state (Indiana) - but was later struck down as unconstitutional.


If violent video games are indeed part of the problem, the problem with controlling access to them isn't then with "the system" but with the fact that most parents don't consider video game violence to be a problem, and are happy to supply them to their kids if it buys them some peace and quiet.


In my opinion, we're doing it wrong. We fine the living hell out of a network for an accidental nipple slip, but show violence morning, noon and night.

Kids should be exposed to boobs, not violence. The problem is they don't have a choice. I bet if they were given the choice between seeing titties and watching Platoon, the answer would be *very* obvious.

RELEASE THE BOOBIES!
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby photogpat on Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:11 pm

Heffay wrote:
RELEASE THE BOOBIES!


+2 (bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha)
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby GunClasses.Net on Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:02 pm

tletourneau wrote:The rating systems already exist for games and videos. Stores are supposed to check I'D's at time of purchase and online retailers ensure that the purchaser is old enough because a credit card is used for the transaction (the same way adult websites verify age from what I'm told). I'm not sure what the "powers that be" could be expected to do beyond what has been done.

It is up to parents to determine what is appropriate for their children whether I agree with it or not. I may not agree with a three year old playing a violent video game but that's up to his parents to make that choice.

Just my .2

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I will move the decimal to say your comments are worth two BUCKS. Yes! I agree with everything you said! When I hear of a little boy who plays Call of Duty and then "makes it real" by aiming his pretend gun at the neighbors out his window, that freaks me out. Ya can't say you're against banning guns because people will find ways around it, but you're for banning video games; that's not logical.

Yes, absolutely, I hold parents accountable for what their minor children do... Nobody says a parent MUST provide a video game console to his kids.
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Re: This is getting ridiculous!

Postby yuppiejr on Mon Dec 17, 2012 10:00 pm

Heffay wrote:
Jeff Bergquist wrote:
bstrawse wrote:The rating system is voluntary but it's enforced by nearly every store I'm aware of. I believe that mandatory legislation around this passed in at least one state (Indiana) - but was later struck down as unconstitutional.


If violent video games are indeed part of the problem, the problem with controlling access to them isn't then with "the system" but with the fact that most parents don't consider video game violence to be a problem, and are happy to supply them to their kids if it buys them some peace and quiet.


In my opinion, we're doing it wrong. We fine the living hell out of a network for an accidental nipple slip, but show violence morning, noon and night.

Kids should be exposed to boobs, not violence. The problem is they don't have a choice. I bet if they were given the choice between seeing titties and watching Platoon, the answer would be *very* obvious.

RELEASE THE BOOBIES!


Sad but true... I think I've used this exact phrase making the same point. :)
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