Guns? Mental health? ... PHARMA????

[GunClasses.Net]

Should we start prosecuting big pharmaceuticals instead of gun manufacturers?

"...where, I’d like to ask my colleagues in the media, is the reporting about the psychiatric medications the perpetrator – who had been under treatment for mental-health problems – may have been taking?"

http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/the-giant-ga ... reporting/

The article attempts to show that many MANY mass shooters are on psychiatric drugs - you know, the ones they say 'may result in suicidal thoughts' or 'homocidal ideation'? These affect different people differently. What IF there's a small percentage of the population who get those effects?

The media has yet to question this - do they WANT to touch this with a ten foot pole? (Don't they get paid by the drug co's for all those ads?). I'm not saying there's explicit or even implicit conspiracy; maybe just a hesitance or reluctance?

But then, even so, what might actually happen? Do those companies not also contribute to political campaigns?

[crbutler]

Unfortunately, there is a difference between causality and correlation.

If they don't understand that, they should not write about the issue.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Dealing with the mental health aspect of this issue would require reasoned thought, and far too few Americans are capable of that. It's far easier to focus hatred and fear to demonize an inanimate object like a gun

[2in2out]

I hadn't thought of it that way. Sounds like a good topic for my next round of letters.

[GunClasses.Net]

The correlation is worth investigating to see whether there is causation. However, as many many popular drugs have warnings of suicidal thoughts (yep you'll DEFINITELY sleep after THIS pill?), I wonder if existing research hasn't already found this to be a problem.

The article was the first I have seen to call out "homocidal ideation" as a side effect of a purportedly therapeutic drug, though. ...Wth??!

[Dante]

I firmly believe that psy meds are the smoking gun and big Pharma is doing everything it can to prevent the word from getting out. It's not like it would be the first time they've valued profits over human lives and health.

Even products like Ambien can induce incredibly dangerous side effects on the people taking it.

[plblark]

Thought: The reason the people are ALREADY on this drug is the psych issues. Thus the possible side effects seen in the test groups and sampling are going to be biased towards CYA and list all kinds of side effects seen by the group. Did the majority of people in the clinical trial come INTO the group with suicidal tendencies and homicidal ideation? did it significantly increase on the drug? did it stay the same in a control group? did it decrease once the active group went off the drug?

It's NOT a simple issue but I agree it's MUCH more likely to have effect on the problem.

[rottenit]

Ok so ill open up about my run in with an anti-psychotic medication. Ive had weight control issues since I was a kid (im fat). One MD thought that maybe an anti-psychotic medication would help give me better "impulse control" around food (I use food to self-medicate IE. im an emotional eater). So the 2nd day I was on this stuff I stubb my toe on something in the house wich hurt like hell. Then I procede to start to smash my head into a wall till I am almost unconcious (im not normaly a violent person). So I call the doctor and he says "yea violent outbursts can be a side effect"..... Needless to say thats the last day I took them.

Some fun stuff.

[Dante]

I have known several people who have been prescribed psy meds that have these dangerous side effects, and one of the things that the Dr. commonly forgot to mention to his patients was the possible side effects, particularly how dangerous it can be to stop taking the medication.

You can literally be instantly addicted to these drugs in the sense that if you try to stop taking them cold turkey, you are going to experience a lot of problems. Even slowly trying to wean yourself off of some of these drugs can be a dangerous and scary process and I know of at least one person who has gotten themselves down to the lowest dose possible but gets physically ill if they don't continue to dose themselves (even though the depression they used to have has not been an issue for several years).

We, as a country, are far too quick to look for and accept that there is a pill for anything that ails us.

[cabindriver]

I thought these were interesting.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/01/frau ... etics.html

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

[GunClasses.Net]

I thought these were interesting.

http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/01/frau ... etics.html

http://ssristories.com/index.php?p=school

So looking at SSRISTORIES.COM's list, one has to wonder, is it...:

A. Are people with mental illness likely to commit crimes of violence, and are also being treated with medications? If so, more need treatment, and it's not the meds prompting it.
or...
B. Are people with mental illness who would otherwise NOT commit crimes of violence, taking medications which push them over the edge? If so, we need to stop and take a closer look at the meds.

It's the whole "side effects may include suicidal thoughts" that makes me question if B is a possible explanation in at least some cases.

I think it's also important to recognize that people may need medication to stabilize their condition and that many people benefit from the meds. Perhaps it's only a small subset of people who have the kind of adverse reaction we're concerned with? And, not everyone who needs mental health services needs meds or is given meds.

[Dante]

Take these sources with a grain of salt... but I do believe they are on the right track.

http://www.wnd.com/2012/12/psych-meds-linked-to-90-of-school-shootings/

Some 90 percent of school shootings over more than a decade have been linked to a widely prescribed type of antidepressant called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors or SSRIs, according to British psychiatrist Dr. David Healy, a founder of RxISK.org, an independent website for researching and reporting on prescription drugs.

https://www.cchrint.org/tag/school-shootings/

CCHR’s website documents that at least fourteen recent school shootings were committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs, resulting in 109 wounded and 58 killed.

I haven't read the whole thing yet but this one appears to be a little less tinfoily:

http://cegant.com/commentary/school-shootings-and-psychiatric-drugs-update

Sometimes simple questions are the hardest to ask. The media is forbidden to ask that question because their very existence depends on Big Pharma sponsorship. That question might jeopardize Big Pharma campaign contributions leading to political disasters for some politicians (footnote 1).

[Mn01r6]

If that's the case, PBS would be all over it. They have shown no reluctance to go after Pharma on Frontline.

SSRI's are some of the most commonly prescribed antidepressants on the planet and include Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, and Celexa, to name a few. You likely know a few coworkers and family members on these - they are very, very common.

So, a few things to remember: 1) Correlation does not mean causation. 100% of mass shooters drank milk as babies - a perfect correlation. 100% also possessed a firearm at the time of the shooting. Neither Milk nor Firearms caused the shootings. 2) When people die of cancer and they have chemotherapy drugs in their system, do we say the chemo caused them to get cancer and die, or do we rightly conclude that the medicine used to treat their condition didn't do enough to help, and that they succumbed to the disease? 3) Unlike other medical issues, psychiatry is almost purely interview based. That is how we interrogate the mind for mental illness. If people are not floridly psychotic, they can hide their plans to perpetrate evil from even the best trained clinicians.

I am not saying there isn't a link, but researchers have studied this issue and have not found anything close to what is being insinuated here.

There are no easy answers to the problem of gun violence. Poverty and the prohibition of recreational drugs certainly plays a major role in the common, day to day gun violence. As for spree killings, better access to mental health professionals and better awareness by friends and family of warning signs and the family restricting access to all potentially harmful objects/substances (from rat poison to firearms) would go a long way.