DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Discussion of firearm-related news stories. Please use "Off Topic" for non-firearm news.
Forum rules
Do NOT post the full text of published articles. If you would like to discuss a news story please link to it and, at most, include a brief summary of the article.

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby 20mm on Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:08 am

Bitter Bastard wrote:
Heffay wrote:It would be interesting to see if someone makes targets of cops and federal officers.


Cop targets have been around for years as training tools for no-shoots. They are supposed to get the trainee to evaluate the target before just opening fire. They are commonly plain-clothes cops with a badge on their belt, things like that. You can also buy target accessories such as walkie-talkies, badges, guns, cell phones, and so on the training officer can tape or staple to a photo target. That way a single photo can be either a shoot or no shoot target and the shooter must evaluate before pulling the trigger.

Bitter Bastard


That's why if i was a criminal I'd dress like a cop, instead of a pregnant woman!
"Go 20mm" - Sigfan220
""Real men shoot 20mm." - FJ540
"If I could be reincarnated as a fabric, I would come back as a 38 double-D bra." - Jesse Ventura
20mm
 
Posts: 835 [View]
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:34 pm

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby damian_mb on Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:08 am

americos wrote:
coppewpew.jpg



:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
"It can never happen in Amurika"
damian_mb
 
Posts: 243 [View]
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:47 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby SpiderPig on Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:24 pm

jshuberg wrote:A person who carries a weapon for defense, whether a LEO or armed citizen, will typically play out defensive scenarios in their mind and mentally rehearse how they would like to react. While this does help prepare a person mentally for a defensive encounter, it also has the unfortunate effect of reinforcing what the subconscious mind presumes the bad guy will look like. This can lead to a moment of hesitation in an actual lethal force encounter if the attacker doesn't conform to this stereotype.

Using targets of normal looking people, and even the type of people you would never associate as being the bad guy will inoculate the mind against hesitation when the bad guy doesn't conform to the stereotype. They are not using these targets to train to shoot pregnant women and children, they are using them to break their subconscious stereotype of who the bad guy is and what he looks like, in order to eliminate hesitation and increase survivability.


I call Bull$!

Why would you NOT want a cop to hesitate when he sees a 6 year old with what looks like a gun. Or, why would you NOT want a cop to do a little bit of thinking before shooting a young babysitter who just scared off an intruder and is too scared to drop the gun. How about a pregnant mother pointing a cell phone at the window behind the officer? Is there a serious problem with police officers getting shot because they thought a bad guy looked like my kid? This is absolute nonsense and one of the
stupidest things I've ever seen. We are not in Vietnam in 1968! Everyone, including cops, become notoriously bad shots under stress and shoot unarmed citizens far too often. Now we want to make it easier for them to react by shooting? How about investing more training dollars in ethics, critical thinking skills, the constitution, and threat assessment instead of targets that look like people that pull guns less than .000001% of the time!
User avatar
SpiderPig
 
Posts: 121 [View]
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby -=VILLY=- on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:42 pm

Actually, I've seen these targets get used both ways. I've attended training in a live fire shoot house and we were given multiple scenarios, including a home invasion scenario where the residents are home and had called 911. We were to go in there and confront the "bad guys" and rescue the residents. And yes, there was a target there that looked like one of these. It was a woman pointing a gun at you with a young child in front of her. It was only after we gave the "order" for the woman to drop the gun did the intructor tells us that she had "complied" and was the resident per the scenario. We covered for them as one of us "escorted" the residents safely out of the house. Then we went on to secure the rest of the house. The scenario ended with no shots fired as it turned out that the "female resident" had already scared off the intruders.

In the very last scenario, we were to respond to a shooting call at a house where the 911 caller had said that his son was shooting family members before the line went dead. We go into the house to confront this "son" and rescue any victims. We entered the house and found two mannequins on the floor with apparent gun shot wounds. We entered a room and found a mannequin of a young boy pointing a handgun at a woman mannequin sitting on a bed holding a baby mannequin. We hesitated and gave several orders for the "son" to drop his gun, but the instructor did not say anything. After a few seconds of our attempts to talk down the "son", the instructor yelled "bang, bang, bang" signalling that the "son" had began firing. Afterwards, the instructor told us that he was able to yell bang twice before we engaged the "son", and that at that point blank range, the mon and baby sister were undoubtedly hit by the son. In that scenario, the "son" was not to be talked down which we tried to do. It was a normal reaction for anyone to do. But this scenario was set up to be a lose-lose situation for us. We lost because we failed to rescue the victims by trying to save the "son", and we also lost as we failed to save the "son". We were left to think about all the "what ifs" and all the "damn if you do and damn if you don't" scenarios. It was a very sobering reminder of that split second decision we as cops may have to face.

Does that last scenario sound too far fetch to be true? The thought of it is mind-boggling and disturbing, but it does happen. I have a young son that I teach how to shoot, and my boy's got very good aim. As a father like many of us, I teach my boy what's right from wrong, and I know that this scenario will never happen to me. But as cop, training like these is valuable in helping me survive. You are correct that this is not Vietnam in 1968, but there is violence out there. Just look at the posting here viewtopic.php?f=55&t=9397&start=300&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=4th+precinct for common calls to just one part of Minneapolis.
Last edited by -=VILLY=- on Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"MIND OVER MATTER - If you don't MIND, then it don't MATTER."
User avatar
-=VILLY=-
 
Posts: 243 [View]
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:20 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby SpiderPig on Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:54 pm

Well made points Villy.

As soon as you mentioned the link, I thought, we'll never see pregnant or young people of color on targets intended for realism in training.
User avatar
SpiderPig
 
Posts: 121 [View]
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:21 pm

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby -=VILLY=- on Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:15 pm

That's a seperate topic that I, as someone in my profession, will not partake in.
"MIND OVER MATTER - If you don't MIND, then it don't MATTER."
User avatar
-=VILLY=-
 
Posts: 243 [View]
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:20 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby Snowgun on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:03 pm

Great post on decision situations Villy, I do not envy your job.
Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay its price. - Sun Tzu

The Way is in training... Do nothing which is not of value. - Miyamato Musashi

One who knows the Self puts death to death. - Upanishads
User avatar
Snowgun
Events Coordinator
 
Posts: 3368 [View]
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:06 pm
Location: Watching my CZ Catch the Sunlight!

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby fuller malarkey on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:45 pm

I don't understand why there isn't a target of the object most likely to be shot by a police officer

Image
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
User avatar
fuller malarkey
 
Posts: 243 [View]
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:30 am

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby MXGreg on Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:50 pm

fuller malarkey wrote:I don't understand why there isn't a target of the object most likely to be shot by a police officer

Image


Would you happen to know where I can get one of my neighbor's cat?
User avatar
MXGreg
 
Posts: 434 [View]
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:48 am
Location: Goodhue County

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby captnviper on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:55 pm

went to the manufacturers website they took them down cause of complaints.
captnviper
 
Posts: 206 [View]
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:27 am

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby MXGreg on Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:12 pm

From their website:

Image
User avatar
MXGreg
 
Posts: 434 [View]
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:48 am
Location: Goodhue County

Re: DHS buying targets of gun owners?

Postby harryset on Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:02 pm

They are probably practicing for duty in Chicago. There has been a call for DHS to take over the streets there.

It's gotta be a terrible thing for an officer to have to face those decisions out on the streets. They catch enough heat for nailing the bad guys.
stercus accidit
It's not the LAWS you necessarily have to worry about, it's how the laws are regulated.

Send Me
User avatar
harryset
 
Posts: 231 [View]
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:04 pm
Location: Bemidji, Minnesota

Previous

Return to In The News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

cron