Vets, How many sets of 5 brothers in WWII ? Google fails me.

[gunsmith]

Tman, just an illustration of why Robert Capa's D-Day images were destroyed....there would be no benefit to the War effort in showing a dead body of a 19 year old boy floating in the waves with his intestines blown away. If images like that were available it would have hurt morale.

I'm a professional photographer with a special interest in documentary photography especially the 30's & 40's
and I've seen every war image that I could find.
You have to go to weird internet sites to find such images ogrish.com or bestgore.com NSFW !!!

Both of the images are horrific for sure....but that's 'comparable' to what Capa's censored images could be like.

I have seen very few images of horribly injured Allied soldiers. It's possible that the ethic was that those pictures WERE JUST NOT TAKEN by
official photographers or soldiers. I don't know. If they existed I would have seen them and I started before there was an internet.

I've studied the propaganda too. Going to war was portrayed as 'glorious' we dealt with the double amputees later. Bob Dole was shot up pretty bad in Italy and he's the reason we have the ADA and curb cuts and ramps into Post offices. It wouldn't have happened without him. I think he was hospitalized for a year on his return to the states.

Just wanted to show a quick glimpse at the gore of war. You can look away now They really did rape women in the 'Rape of Nankin' and killed about 250,000.
This one is less 'disturbing' than the other two, but you know when the Aliens finally land, we got to show 'em this stuff because that's who we really are

http://forum.goregrish.com/threads/the- ... ing.17839/

[tman]

You've assumed the wrong audience for this forum.


Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

[gunsmith]

You've assumed the wrong audience for this forum.


Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

You can look away Let each man decide for himself.

[MasonK]

You've assumed the wrong audience for this forum.


Sent from my iPhone using that app which shall not be named.

You can look away Let each man decide for himself.

While I can appreciate your love of WWII history, I'll kindly say that this is board about firearms and this particular area is specifically about items in the news. As there is no chat area for "Babies on Bayonets" I would direct you to the Off Topic area for a post like this, or better yet, another board altogether.

[tman]

MN Gun Talk is a resource for all Minnesotans who are interested in firearm ownership and the related topics. Regardless of your views on the issues involved you are welcome to participate. All that is required to join the forum is a name and valid email address. Your information will not be sold or distributed to third parties.

To participate in the forum members must adhere to the following rules:

<..snip>

No profanity or obscene pictures.

Beheadings and babies on bayonets?


How much more obscene can you get?


REMOVE THE PHOTOS.

[XDM45]

These photos do not bother me so much as what caused them does - human(un)kind. It is sad that such events took place, but sadder still that human(un)kind was able to create them. These images and events are merely the by-product of a much larger problem and issue with human(un)kind.

There are many such examples of this in WWII alone... Unit 731, Block 10, the list goes on. I agree that this thread belongs in the off-topic area, but I do not believe the OP is trying to troll, stir the pit, etc, and in a way, this does have to do with guns.... Guns are why this has NOT happened in America. I believe the OP is excercising his 1st Amendment and is looking at this from a historicical and technical point of view in some regard, along with outrage at the event(s) themselves.

if people are uncomfortable with the subject matter, I suggest they look within themselves for the answer why.

[DaZhi]

I know all of this is off topic, and the photos probably inappropriate, but I just wanted to say that I appreciate that these atrocities aren't forgotten.

I am a first generation Citizen of the United States of America. My grandfather was three star general in the Koumintang. He served alongside Chiang Kai Shek during the Second Sino-Japanese War, trained Allied paratroopers during WWII, and the Chinese Civil War. I visited the Rape of Nanjing memorial while I taught English in China. It was a very hard and humbling experience. My friends with Jewish heritage who visited Auschwitz had similar experiences. Luckily, my grandmother was safe in the northern city of Harbin during the Rape of Nanjing.

I feel blessed that my family was able to emigrate to the US, and give me the opportunities and rights that I have now.

[tman]

These photos do not bother me so much as what caused them does - human(un)kind. It is sad that such events took place, but sadder still that human(un)kind was able to create them. These images and events are merely the by-product of a much larger problem and issue with human(un)kind.

There are many such examples of this in WWII alone... Unit 731, Block 10, the list goes on. I agree that this thread belongs in the off-topic area, but I do not believe the OP is trying to troll, stir the pit, etc, and in a way, this does have to do with guns.... Guns are why this has NOT happened in America. I believe the OP is excercising his 1st Amendment and is looking at this from a historicical and technical point of view in some regard, along with outrage at the event(s) themselves.

if people are uncomfortable with the subject matter, I suggest they look within themselves for the answer why.

MN Guntalk has specific rules about obscene photos. This is a PG-13 forum, the best as I can tell. A simple link to the photos and a "graphic" warning would not have met with any bitching by me.

[gunsmith]

Another feature of this forum is RADICAL thread drift. It will wind up being about 3D printing of AR-15s shortly.

Still looking for reference for a stat on how many families had 5 or more men in Uniform during WW2. Can not believe the number of families with 10 children back then. These days 4 kids is Odd. Individual service records are available from the gov for $25 or less to servicemen or immediate family.

I need to google: "How to Google"

[xd ED]

Another feature of this forum is RADICAL thread drift. It will wind up being about 3D printing of AR-15s shortly.

Still looking for reference for a stat on how many families had 5 or more men in Uniform during WW2. Can not believe the number of families with 10 children back then. These days 4 kids is Odd. Individual service records are available from the gov for $25 or less to servicemen or immediate family.

I need to google: "How to Google"

Another bit of drift- back when those families were created, there were still the traditions that began on family run farms where the labor of a large family kept them in 'bussiness', and infant mortality was in places 50%.
My paternal grandparents lost 1 of their 5 kids to disease. Their two oldest, my dad and uncle served near each other in WWII, and went into Anzio together. Between them they were awarded a Silver Star( my uncle), and 2 Bronze Stars(my dad). As my dad's 1st Bronze Star was earned in N Africa, it was among the first awarded in the European theatre, at a time when enlisted men didn't get the same consideration as officers for such commendations.

You need to hook up with a military historian...they will point you in a productive direction.

[minnhawk]

Frank Capa went ashore with the 16th Inf Regiment of the 1st Infantry Division on the second wave to the Easy Red and Fox Green zones of Omaha Beach. That would have put him on the beach 30-45 minutes after the initial assault landing, and at a time when the beach was in total chaos. You can see his 11 surviving pictures here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Magnificent_Eleven

Army censors would not have had control over the negatives as he was shooting for Life Magazine; the censors would have stopped Life from transmitting them back to the states, or altered them (removing unit markings, patches and the like)

The Army Signal Corps recorded the war completely, the good, the bad, the horrific. There are over 5,000,000 still images in the National Archives and miles of film footage. What was released to the American public from the ETO was far different that what was released from the PTO, for obvious racial/ethnic/cultural reasons.

The American public was shown many horrific images of dead American soldiers from the PTO. The war against Japan was a mutually asserted race war by each side. You can watch the change in American propaganda by how the Japanese were portrayed. Early in the war they were squinty-eyed yellow monkey men with thick glasses. As the war progressed, they became animalistic sharp-fanged monsters as their atrocities were discovered and made public. The Japanese also used race in their propaganda, depicting Americans/Anglos as neanderthal cannibals and rapists. And so it goes. If you can dehumanize your enemy, it is easier to kill them. The savagery of combat in the Pacific was matched only at times in Europe on the Eastern Front, another race war of epic proportions.

As a oral history recorder of WWII vets, I have never met one who fought in the Pacific who has forgiven the Japanese, or even has had a kind word to say about them. Never met one who ever owned a Japanese car either.

[JustPlainT]

Ignoring the thread redirection...

I'd like to know with some authority how many sets of 5 or more brothers from the same family served in WW2.

No idea. We were close. My family had 4 brothers. All came back. One of their first cousins went down with the Johnson at Leyte Gulf. My grandfather worked the farm. That's about the extent of my knowledge of the family war effort, though my father has letters from the brothers to their younger siblings back home that I have yet to read.

[gunsmith]

Good Post Minnhawk. We need a thanks button on this forum. Some have them. A great post will get a dozen or more 'thanks'

My dad was a German interpreter and interrogated actual Nazis. SS guys and almost did a shiver when talking about them as if he had been in the presence of Non-Human Satanic Ghouls without souls.
As if he were in danger of disease by being in the same room as these Cold Blooded agents of the Devil.

I think his body gesture was a fake shiver and a head shake. He encountered un-repentent (but captured) Nazis who embodied the complete Nazi worldview. He mentioned their fanatical arrogance and conviction of their superiority. He could see these guys and imagine a world dominated by the Nazi culture.

I watch as many old movies as I can made from 1939 through 1969 (I lived the 70's I can skip those, and they sucked anyway) and there was a 'Pearl Harbor Phase' when everybody's 'Hair was on Fire' Hollywood jammed references to winning the war in otherwise unrelated movies just because that's what people wanted to hear. My observation is in the early years of the war you will hear the liberal use of the word JAP and it's spit out of the mouth like an obscenity.

Anyone involved the history of the war uses 'Japanese' to avoid any racist accusations.

[gunsmith]

@Minnhawk. I imagine a General in the actual Darkroom where the film was developed looking over 3 sheets of Contact prints of 35mm film and realizing at that point in the war photos of horrifically injured teenaged American boys would serve no purpose to anyone anywhere and he made a phone call and got approval to 86 the worst of the images.

The loss of the negatives was blamed on an 'Overly-enthusiastic lab technician' who melted the film in the film dryer.
That's Baloney.
I'm a photographer. You treat wet negatives like you were doing eye surgery or something.
They Deep-sixed those negatives and I don't blame them. I think it took a month before the Allies could be confident they wouldn't be thrown back into the Ocean.
I know it's 'conspiracy theory' but you don't let an incompetent near film of that importance.

[minnhawk]

I used to teach a propaganda unit. Hollywood did not make a war movie I am aware of during WWII that wasn't a propaganda movie. They were great. They were necessary. Japanese soldiers were always portrayed as back-stabbing, cheating vermin who didn't "fight fair and square" against our All-American boys. Of course this just echoed American sentiment that Pearl Harbor was a dastardly cheap shot -- which it was. A big radio hit was "Gonna Slap The Dirty Little Jap" by a singer named Carlson Robinson http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51kWDb2FDTE

It may be politically correct not to refer to Japanese Imperial Soldiers, Sailors, or Marines as "Japs" but don't correct a WWII Vet from the PTO with that line of bulls**t. I do not refer to contemporary Japanese as Japs, but I will always refer to those who fought in WWII as Japs. Same goes for Germans (my genetic lineage) will be referred to as "Krauts."

The military and the free press had a good relationship in WWII. Self-restraint was utilized by the free press. They knew horiffic images of dead Americans would be difficult on the homefront. However, the deaths and casualties from "Bloody Tarawa" resonated with the American public, and an AP Photo of dead marines did run nationally in the press, and that was 1943. Up to that point, the mighty American soldier was gonna crush these weak little Japs with thick glasses, but the body count didn't jive with that propaganda. The photo was a planned release to provoke more anger in the American public in order to sell more war bonds.

http://californiasunshinehomes.com/wp-c ... arines.jpg

It worked.