Your Opinions: Lessons learned from Zimmerman Trial

[MasonK]

I'm trying to find the article I read that "warning shots" aren't covered under "Stand Your Ground" laws in Florida.

If you read into the case details -- she may or may not have been an unwilling participant as well...IANAL.

One can argue that if you are not in enough imminent danger to shoot the threat, you were not in enough danger to use lethal force.

Stand your ground, as I understand it, means you do not have a duty to retreat. I don't read it as such that you have the right to reinsert yourself into a life or death situation once you have taken yourself out of danger after an imminiment threat has been presented.

[jgalt]

I'm trying to find the article I read that "warning shots" aren't covered under "Stand Your Ground" laws in Florida.

If you read into the case details -- she may or may not have been an unwilling participant as well...IANAL.

One can argue that if you are not in enough imminent danger to shoot the threat, you were not in enough danger to use lethal force.

Stand your ground, as I understand it, means you do not have a duty to retreat. I don't read it as such that you have the right to reinsert yourself into a life or death situation once you have taken yourself out of danger after an imminiment threat has been presented.

To put it in terms of MN law (with which most of us are more likely to be familiar), the idea behind SYG laws is to remove the duty to retreat, and make it clear the burden of proof lies with the state to show it wasn't self defense, rather than on you to prove that it was.

SYG (at least in MN) would not affect the other 3 standards necessary prior to being justified to use force - i.e. (1) reluctant participant status, (2) immediate threat (verbal alone not enough), & (3) no lesser force will suffice. Failure to meet any of these standards will make whether or not you had a duty to retreat irrelevant...

[Heffay]

SYG (at least in MN) would not affect the other 3 standards necessary prior to being justified to use force - i.e. (1) reluctant participant status, (2) immediate threat (verbal alone not enough), & (3) no lesser force will suffice. Failure to meet any of these standards will make whether or not you had a duty to retreat irrelevant...

So why won't they put those standards on the bill every time they submit it?

[jgalt]

SYG (at least in MN) would not affect the other 3 standards necessary prior to being justified to use force - i.e. (1) reluctant participant status, (2) immediate threat (verbal alone not enough), & (3) no lesser force will suffice. Failure to meet any of these standards will make whether or not you had a duty to retreat irrelevant...

So why won't they put those standards on the bill every time they submit it?

Ask someone with control over that...

[gunsmith]

Quick Question:

How about "Disparity of Force" in Minnesota. I'm guessing it's NOT in the statute but in caselaw.

Specifically robbery in urban areas...you read the 4th precinct crime reports and 8 out of 10 robberies are comitted by 2 or more young males against a single individual.

The Males are young 14-24 and the victims can be much older, for example 61 year old woman waiting at a bus stop.

What does Mn Law or Case law have to say about 'Disparity of Force' Other states may address this in their statutes.

[Squib Joe]

State v. Basting, 572 N.W.2d 281, 285 (Minn. 1997). A person who claims self-defense must use only the degree of force “necessary to a reasonable person under similar circumstances.” Id. at 286.

Size, age and number of assailants are all factors in these circumstances. The "no lesser force" criteria in the case of using a firearm is met when you can prove that you are unable to defend yourself in any other way under that circumstance.

[gunsmith]

State v. Basting, 572 N.W.2d 281, 285 (Minn. 1997). A person who claims self-defense must use only the degree of force “necessary to a reasonable person under similar circumstances.” Id. at 286.

Size, age and number of assailants are all factors in these circumstances. The "no lesser force" criteria in the case of using a firearm is met when you can prove that you are unable to defend yourself in any other way under that circumstance.

Thanks, Googled it, Looks like I need to prove the disparity, rather than just 'claim' it and then have the state 'dis-prove' it.
so ..we do need 'defense of person and dweling' Hopefully we won't hear 'Zimmerman' to much next time it comes up at the Legislature.

[Heffay]

Here's a great summary of the trial.

[gunforhire]

both TM and GZ are **** idiots. Lesson #1, don't be a **** idiot.

[jgalt]

Here's a great summary of the trial.

If by "great" you mean completely ridiculous & not at all comporting w/reality ... then, yup.

[gunsmith]

Local Losers to rally for (Thug) Terrance Franklin (shot and wounded 2 cops last month) and (Thug) Tray-Baby Martin.

Hoodies up mn....Acorn Retards and Occupy Wall Streeters w/ matted hair....'Cream of the Crop'

"As Minnesotans, it is important that we join our voices in solidarity with the national movement crying out for justice on behalf of Trayvon Martin. The acquittal of George Zimmerman for the murder of Trayvon further deepens the wounds wrought by years of oppression, racism, and discrimination for communities of color. Today's rally symbolizes our resolve to continue to fight the for freedom, justice, and equality on behalf of the young men in our community who are routinely harassed, racially profiled, and stereotyped because of the color of their skin and the clothes they wear. Our young people deserve to be treated with fairness, dignity, and respect."

Nekima Levy-Pounds, Esq.
Associate Professor of Law
Director, Community Justice Project

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... 440&type=1

[Tronster]

Lessons learned:

Don't pretend you're a cop, cause you ain't.

Don't follow someone that looks suspicious while looking suspicious yourself.

If involved in a shooting and the police start asking questions, keep your mouth shut until you talk to a lawyer so you don't contradict yourself during post tramatic nerves. The End.

[sgruenhagen44]

don't be "white"!

Exactly.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-574 ... ing-shots/

20 years is excessive, but a simple fact I learned in my carry class. Don't carry unless your prepared to use your weapon and if you shoot, shoot to neutralize your assailant. Not to kill, not to warn, not to wound.

[Ron Burgundy]

Lesson learned: come to MNGT for legal advice. You guys are more gooder at this!

[xd ED]

Obama phones may have been a good thing after all: Now you can text up a twit-storm and call it a rally / demand for justice. Beats hangin out someplace with a lot of bugs and stuff. and no beatdown from the man.