Obama, 35yr ago TM "could have been me"

[Ron Burgundy]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

[Heffay]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

You can't turn from bottom.

[Heffay]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

Here, let me answer in a more serious way.

All it takes for evil to set in is for good men to do nothing.

We all know the bigots and racists exist on every forum, not just MGT. But for some reason, they tend to actually *say* what they think, instead of self moderating and staying deep in the closet where good bigots belong. And the sad thing is that is more of a reflection on the gun community than them. For some reason they seem to think that being here means they are among like-minded individuals, so they believe that at the very least they'll get silence (which in their minds reflects tacit agreement), and in their ideals it will embolden the other bigots to speak out.

So not only does the gun community have the image problem of being a bunch of bigoted hicks, but the silence on these forums reinforces it. No one is standing up to them and letting them know their behavior is inappropriate. No action is taken by the forum moderators, who will perma-ban people for trying to help out someone who is dying. What kind of impression does this give them then? They are among their people.

It's complete ******** the silence the board has had in the face of these guys. Good work. The degeneration of this forum has less to do with the bigots spouting off their hate, but rather the silence of the majority instead of putting them in their place.

[gunsmith]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

I tried to get Heffay banned till the Zimmerman trial was over. In a week Zimmerman will be old news.

[CraigJS]

Many of us are also seen as being overly self righteous. Not all comments are meant to be racist.

[Evad]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

Here, let me answer in a more serious way.

All it takes for evil to set in is for good men to do nothing.

We all know the bigots and racists exist on every forum, not just MGT. But for some reason, they tend to actually *say* what they think, instead of self moderating and staying deep in the closet where good bigots belong. And the sad thing is that is more of a reflection on the gun community than them. For some reason they seem to think that being here means they are among like-minded individuals, so they believe that at the very least they'll get silence (which in their minds reflects tacit agreement), and in their ideals it will embolden the other bigots to speak out.

So not only does the gun community have the image problem of being a bunch of bigoted hicks, but the silence on these forums reinforces it. No one is standing up to them and letting them know their behavior is inappropriate. No action is taken by the forum moderators, who will perma-ban people for trying to help out someone who is dying. What kind of impression does this give them then? They are among their people.

It's complete ******** the silence the board has had in the face of these guys. Good work. The degeneration of this forum has less to do with the bigots spouting off their hate, but rather the silence of the majority instead of putting them in their place.

I think this is my favorite heffay post. Well said. I remained largely silent simply hoping it would stop. We had members being just as racist as the other side. The whole Zimmerman thing sucked on many levels.

[yuppiejr]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

I tried to get Heffay banned till the Zimmerman trial was over. In a week Zimmerman will be old news.

If only your participation on the forum were old news...

[yuppiejr]

I think this is my favorite heffay post. Well said. I remained largely silent simply hoping it would stop. We had members being just as racist as the other side. The whole Zimmerman thing sucked on many levels.

+1 regarding Heffay's post.

My observation from the last word brawl I got into around here on the topic of gay marriage was that the more you fan the flames the more these guys crawl out from under rocks and just keep on spewing. In this specific venue "ignoring" these guys is a valid response in that it at least keeps from bumping their garbage back to the top of the unread list.

[minnhawk]

To me, this is one of the few times the President spoke at length that he said drove me crazy. I didn't hear an agenda today, and I listened to what he said. He asked us to try and understand that Blacks in America see the shooting and the trial through a different experience than do non-Blacks. I got that.

I now understand the "racial" part of this sad experience is a reminder that Blacks are profiled by Whites because we think they are dangerous -- women clutch their purses tighter, pedestrians give them the "wary eye" and cross the street, drivers lock their doors and so on. The President's message explained the race factor of this Zimmerman-Martin mess to me, and it made sense. Blacks' reaction to this doesn't have to be legal, or responsible, or rational; profiling is what it is and I can see how it hurts Blacks and affects how they view life and justice in America. but now I think I understand it much better.

I also think his public, honest and sincere validation of the issue of profiling helped American Blacks begin to get over this mess.

While he ran in 2008 to bring people together and to heal us, this is the first instance where I have seen him demonstrate any of that it to We The People.

[jimbob85]

And when they're looting and screaming for Zimmerman's head they're not doing themselves as a race any favors. Don't like a stereotype? Don't perpetuate it.

[gunsmith]

We're witnessing history.

July 2013

The pendulum of 'racial harmony' has begun to swing 'the other way'

"Racial integration" the goal of the 50's Civil Rights Movement is now part of our past.

Obama / Holder / Sharpton / Trayvon

We had the Romantic notion that somehow through spending Billions of dollars on Lyndon Johnson's "Great Society"

we could somehow 'Undo' Slavery and we've been proven wrong.

We need to admit defeat and build more jails.

Just think of the relief if our first Half-White president had rolled into the press room and given Zimmerman a

FULL PRESIDENTIAL PARDON. Al Sharpton would literally have been unable to speak for a week. America

would just be 'One Big Happy Family' for about 24 Hours. And people would actually start to like the guy.

Nixon was HATED when he resigned and Osama is on his way to being a Black Nixon.

Not looking forward to 'President Hillary' A Bitch With Nukes...


....All she had the last time she was in the White House was Astrays and Lamps...

[Heffay]

I think this is my favorite heffay post. Well said. I remained largely silent simply hoping it would stop. We had members being just as racist as the other side. The whole Zimmerman thing sucked on many levels.

+1 regarding Heffay's post.

My observation from the last word brawl I got into around here on the topic of gay marriage was that the more you fan the flames the more these guys crawl out from under rocks and just keep on spewing. In this specific venue "ignoring" these guys is a valid response in that it at least keeps from bumping their garbage back to the top of the unread list.

I disagree with this to a point. While yes, you ignore trolls to make them go away, that doesn't work for people who believe in what they say. You don't make the conspiracy theories go away by not talking about them. NASA refuted the moon landing hoax. The world is refuting the anti-vaccination crown.

Silence is tacit endorsement, and we can see a *very* clear example right here on MGT. XDM45 started off as a lovable OC operator with a lifetime of practical and tactically sound experience in the 1 year he owned a gun. He kept his bigoted views in the closet as is proper in society. But then he saw gunsmith spouting off his hate without any consequences. Without anyone standing up to him. So he naturally assumed such behavior is accepted in the gun community and rapidly became one of the worst offenders here on the board.

So I'll say it again: All it takes for evil to set root is for good men to do nothing. All the people sitting on the sidelines hoping these guys will go away are part of the problem. We can't hope that they just plain don't exist, because they do. We have to train them how to behave in public. What is appropriate to say and what thoughts to repress deep in the closet. Otherwise, gun owners and bigotry will continue to be linked in the eyes of the public, and the damage will never be undone.

[Ron Burgundy]

I'm not sure what happened but in the last few weeks this forum took a turn for the worse. Unbelievable.

Here, let me answer in a more serious way.

All it takes for evil to set in is for good men to do nothing.

We all know the bigots and racists exist on every forum, not just MGT. But for some reason, they tend to actually *say* what they think, instead of self moderating and staying deep in the closet where good bigots belong. And the sad thing is that is more of a reflection on the gun community than them. For some reason they seem to think that being here means they are among like-minded individuals, so they believe that at the very least they'll get silence (which in their minds reflects tacit agreement), and in their ideals it will embolden the other bigots to speak out.

So not only does the gun community have the image problem of being a bunch of bigoted hicks, but the silence on these forums reinforces it. No one is standing up to them and letting them know their behavior is inappropriate. No action is taken by the forum moderators, who will perma-ban people for trying to help out someone who is dying. What kind of impression does this give them then? They are among their people.

It's complete ******** the silence the board has had in the face of these guys. Good work. The degeneration of this forum has less to do with the bigots spouting off their hate, but rather the silence of the majority instead of putting them in their place.

Not too bad, Edmund Burke.

I like this place better when we talk about guns. The politics and social issue threads seem to bring out people's true colors. Perhaps if I continue to hang around, I'll take your advice to heart and call out these a-holes. Like you said, you can't turn from the bottom so maybe it is better to spend my time where this behavior is not tolerated.

***not a rage quit, no points awarded

[gunsmith]

Silence is tacit endorsement, and we can see a *very* clear example right here on MGT. XDM45 started off as a lovable OC operator with a lifetime of practical and tactically sound experience in the 1 year he owned a gun. He kept his bigoted views in the closet as is proper in society. But then he saw gunsmith spouting off his hate without any consequences. Without anyone standing up to him. So he naturally assumed such behavior is accepted in the gun community and rapidly became one of the worst offenders here on the board.

So I'll say it again: All it takes for evil to set root is for good men to do nothing. All the people sitting on the sidelines hoping these guys will go away are part of the problem. We can't hope that they just plain don't exist, because they do. We have to train them how to behave in public. What is appropriate to say and what thoughts to repress deep in the closet. Otherwise, gun owners and bigotry will continue to be linked in the eyes of the public, and the damage will never be undone.

Heffay, I think at this point you and I have 'A PROBLEM'

You can't remain a member of this board and make such personal attacks...it's easy to ignore your posts but not personal attacks.

Go Away.

Post any kind of nonsense you want but when you accuse someone of hate you've crossed a line...I think you need a 30 day suspension to think it through

Have a good weekend.

[gunsmith]

Complaint sent to mods:

Hi Folks,

Glad the Zimmerman episode is winding down. Co-existing w/ Heffay hasn't been a problem but I can't leave a personal attack unanswered. Here's the post. I think the forum would be a happier place if Heffay were able to 're-evaluate' his role for thirty days. Banning him wouldn't be 'American'

Seriously, it's no big deal, I can ignore Heffay all day long, but if you don't bark back when someone crosses the line to a personal attack, you wind up like George Bush and that's how we got Obama with a super-majority.

Here's my in-forum reply to Heffay's post. Again no big deal but 30 Heffay-Free days might be appreciated by all. Just take a quick look at his recent posts and you'll see what I mean.

I've pasted my previous complaint at the end of this message.

Thanks.

Heffay, I think at this point you and I have 'A PROBLEM'

You can't remain a member of this board and make such personal attacks...it's easy to ignore your posts but not personal attacks.

Go Away.

Post any kind of nonsense you want but when you accuse someone of hate you've crossed a line...I think you need a 30 day suspension to think it through

Have a good weekend.

Last week's complaint:

A) Thanks to all for patience w/ Zimmerman subjects
B) I've evolved this thread into a more cerebral one "Lessons Learned from Zimmerman Trial...off to a good start.
C) I've had great success in dealing with Heffay by simply ignoring all his posts...IT WORKS!
D) I think this crosses a line...
"I like having XDM45 and gunsmith around. I can go and kick puppies all day long and still not be the most hated person on the forum. They've really lowered the bar on what it means to be a member of the MGT community, and for that, I thank them!" Gotta speak up here.
E) I don't really care, except you really should never be silent in the face of character assassination. (George Bush)
F) Possibly the idea of a 'mini-suspension' 24 hours would get Heffay's attention. Derailing a thread w/ non-sense is one thing but charging that I'm "The most hated person on the forum and lowered the bar on what it means to be a member IS PERSONAL ATTACK"
G) no big deal really but if his post was removed and a 24 hour time out was given, I think he'd raise his game a notch.
H)Worst of Zimmerman trial is over. That guy was lucky ....I did not expect the acquittal. It's a red hot issue but in my opinion the biggest thing since Heller / McDonald
Thanks