Homeowner Shoots Intruder In Polk County (WI)

[OldmanFCSA]

?????
You don't have a spare bat, corn knife, club, laying around to be planted as a weapon ????

Police do it all the time in some areas of the country.

One place I lived, a black guy committed suicide by shooting himself in the back with a 30"barreled 12 gage shotgun.
Police investigation of incident confirmed it was suicide.

???

[tman]

Did your permit instructor explain to you MN law when it comes to the intentional taking the life of another inside your home? Specifically, The difference between trespass with damage to property, and a felony?

If you don't recall that part, you might want to get in touch with him. If you don't have a permit, that info itself is worth that price of the class.

So "X" breaks into my house. He's out roaming around, knows people that would have things he could steal and get a little cash for his next fix. So he throws a brick thru my window. I wake up, alarmed, and scared. Come out of my room with gun in hand, see him, and shoot him dead. (small house). As I am doing this, wife calls 911.... I notice he has no weapon other than the brick he threw thru my window.

How can that be interpreted that he was here and going to inflict bodily harm? He had no weapon other than the brick laying on the floor across the room, that he threw thru the window. No gun on him, no knife, no weapon at all. How could he possibly inflict bodily harm? What if he was cracked out and didn't think anyone was home? No prior criminal record at all for him. Maybe a speeding or parking ticket. That's it.

You think that some young hot shot attorney won't sit and try and talk his family into suing me in a wrongful death sort of thing? Even though in my mind, i'm doing what I feel is right and protecting my wife and young daughter. So now i'll have to fight this lawsuit for how long, using up how much cash reserves because some young hot shot attorney is thinking he's going to make a name for himself.

This is why I say the system we have in place is flawed. It very well could happen.

[jshuberg]

I know the story in the OP was in WI, but here in MN:

Any crime committed by an unauthorized intruder, other than the original trespass, is 1st degree burglary when it occurs in the home, which is a felony. Under these circumstances you are legally allowed to use reasonable force, including lethal force when necessary, to prevent the commission of the felony.

Also, a criminal assumes all risk of injury or death when committing a violent crime, which 1st degree burglary is. As long as your actions to defend yourself or prevent the commission of the felony in the home are lawful, you are exempt from civil liability for any injuries or death after defending yourself or your home. You may need to get a lawyer and demonstrate to the court that you are immune from civil liability, but once it has been established you cannot be sued for your actions.

Search the forum, this has all been discussed and statutes/case law provided numerous times.

[Nougat]

an actor is immune from civil liability arising out of his or her use of force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm if the actor reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent death or bodily harm to himself or herself or to another person

that was bolded in the original quote...IANAL either but when would it be unreasonable to believe the person who ''only threw a brick through the window'' or used some other force to break in was going to harm (''in any way''?-doesn't say great up there in the quoted part) someone in the house they just broke into?

sorry if I'm late to the party

addendum: weird how people are saying we need better laws to defend ourselves? I'm pretty sure my interpretation above is what was originally intended. as far as holding your laptop...if they are ''just stealing it'' what would be unreasonable of you to believe that since you ''caught'' them they would throw it at your face, thus justifying your use of force as per above?

[tman]

What do you do if someone kicks in your front door and steps inside. He's only a trespasser.

What do you do if you find a guy in your house who turns to run away, dropping your laptop on the floor when you confront him?

What do you do if the same guy turns and runs WITH your laptop in his hands?

If your answer in ANY of these scenarios is to pull the trigger I suggest you set aside money now for a good criminal attorney.

Remember, IANAL.

I know the story in the OP was in WI, but here in MN:

Any crime committed by an unauthorized intruder, other than the original trespass, is 1st degree burglary when it occurs in the home, which is a felony. Under these circumstances you are legally allowed to use reasonable force, including lethal force when necessary, to prevent the commission of the felony.

Also, a criminal assumes all risk of injury or death when committing a violent crime, which 1st degree burglary is. As long as your actions to defend yourself or prevent the commission of the felony in the home are lawful, you are exempt from civil liability for any injuries or death after defending yourself or your home. You may need to get a lawyer and demonstrate to the court that you are immune from civil liability, but once it has been established you cannot be sued for your actions.

Search the forum, this has all been discussed and statutes/case law provided numerous times.

[Rip Van Winkle]

What do you do if someone kicks in your front door and steps inside. He's only a trespasser.

Only a trespasser? Seriously?

I could understand if you left your door unlocked and some drunk stumbled in, but someone kicking a door in being only guilty of trespassing is hard for me to believe.

IANAL either.

[brad3579]

What do you do if someone kicks in your front door and steps inside. He's only a trespasser.

Only a trespasser? Seriously?

I could understand if you left your door unlocked and some drunk stumbled in, but someone kicking a door in being only guilty of trespassing is hard for me to believe.

IANAL either.

If they kicked in the door and stood there unarmed and not moving towards you in a threatening manner, I wonder if you might not have some problems if you shot them.

[Lumpy]

Would one be entitled to use reasonable force to detain an intruder in one's home (citizen's arrest), and use lethal force if the situation escalated?

[brad3579]

Would one be entitled to use reasonable force to detain an intruder in one's home (citizen's arrest), and use lethal force if the situation escalated?

I don't know if you could do anything more than ask them to stay put until law enforcement arrives. If they decided to walk back out the door I am not sure if you could really do anything about it.

[xd ED]

Would one be entitled to use reasonable force to detain an intruder in one's home (citizen's arrest), and use lethal force if the situation escalated?

I don't know if you could do anything more than ask them to stay put until law enforcement arrives. If they decided to walk back out the door I am not sure if you could really do anything about it.

I see 2 likely scenarios.

The burglar, seeing the opportunity to escape, attempts to leave.

A: You allow him to run out the door, and wait for police to give them his description, then go about the business of securing your damaged door, and sleeping in your own bed that night

B: You tackle the bad guy, who is likely younger, stronger, and in full fight/ flight adrenaline. You probably get hurt, possibly escalate the situation to where you do need to defend yourself with deadly force.
The police show up, take you into custody, you call your lawyer from jail, while your house sits empty. You eventually are cleared after missing some work, and spending next year's vacation funds on attorney fees.

The above is just speculation on my part.
It is one the takeaways I retain from a PTC class several years past.

[tman]

You're right. They've also committed a misdemeanor of Damage to Property.

What do you do if someone kicks in your front door and steps inside. He's only a trespasser.

Only a trespasser? Seriously?

I could understand if you left your door unlocked and some drunk stumbled in, but someone kicking a door in being only guilty of trespassing is hard for me to believe.

IANAL either.

[Rip Van Winkle]

You're right. They've also committed a misdemeanor of Damage to Property.

What do you do if someone kicks in your front door and steps inside. He's only a trespasser.

Only a trespasser? Seriously?

I could understand if you left your door unlocked and some drunk stumbled in, but someone kicking a door in being only guilty of trespassing is hard for me to believe.

IANAL either.

That just seems crazy to me.

Just so I get this straight.

A thug kicks in your door in the middle of the night. At that moment in time, he's only guilty of damage to property and trespassing?

Lets add a twist to the above scenario. Lets say the family dog goes after the intruder and injures him. Could you the homeowner and dog's owner be held civilly and criminally liable?

[greenfarmer]

You're right. They've also committed a misdemeanor of Damage to Property.

IANAL either.

That just seems crazy to me.

Just so I get this straight.

A thug kicks in your door in the middle of the night. At that moment in time, he's only guilty of damage to property and trespassing?

Lets add a twist to the above scenario. Lets say the family dog goes after the intruder and injures him. Could you the homeowner and dog's owner be held civilly and criminally liable?[/quote]

Depends where it happens... You better hope your dog takes him down inside your house! If it happens where the person can legally be, like outside the house, on the sidewalk, or anywhere like that, your up poop creek without a paddle.

347.22 DAMAGES, OWNER LIABLE.
If a dog, without provocation, attacks or injures any person who is acting peaceably in any place where the person may lawfully be, the owner of the dog is liable in damages to the person so attacked or injured to the full amount of the injury sustained. The term "owner" includes any person harboring or keeping a dog but the owner shall be primarily liable. The term "dog" includes both male and female of the canine species.

[Ghost]

347.22 DAMAGES, OWNER LIABLE.
If a dog, without provocation, attacks or injures any person who is acting peaceably in any place where the person may lawfully be, the owner of the dog is liable in damages to the person so attacked or injured to the full amount of the injury sustained. The term "owner" includes any person harboring or keeping a dog but the owner shall be primarily liable. The term "dog" includes both male and female of the canine species.

So does kicking in the door classify as without provocation and acting peaceably?

[greenfarmer]

347.22 DAMAGES, OWNER LIABLE.
If a dog, without provocation, attacks or injures any person who is acting peaceably in any place where the person may lawfully be, the owner of the dog is liable in damages to the person so attacked or injured to the full amount of the injury sustained. The term "owner" includes any person harboring or keeping a dog but the owner shall be primarily liable. The term "dog" includes both male and female of the canine species.

So does kicking in the door classify as without provocation and acting peaceably?

I'm no lawyer, but wouldn't that come down to a he said/she said type of thing in court? without a 3rd or 4th party to see. It states if the person is acting peaceably in a place where the person may lawfully be..... If the person can lawfully be on the sidewalk. Even if he was the one who broke the door open, but as soon as he heard the dog, took off running. He could very easily claim it wasn't him, he saw the criminal running, and he's an innocent bystander that was attacked by your dog.