Trump Is Caving In

[INOR]

I’m actually ok with 1-5. On ccw, I think we need uniform reciprocity and conformity with all requirements being the same. On age, then let’s stop kidding ourselves and not treat kids as adults until 21 for all purposes including voting. We already prevent them from buying handguns, alcohol, and let them stay on their parents insurance until 26 or whatever the heck it is now.


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[BigBlue]

Ideas for thought. I know we live in an imperfect world of man made laws, but a few tweaks might help.

1) Fix the gaps in the NICS reporting. Three of the latest mass shooters would have been barred sale if the system had actually been reported to properly.
2) Open NICS access to the general public for private transfers with a simple go/no-go to help keep guns from inadvertently being sold to prohibited persons.
3) Investigate the FBI and local LE for their failures in the FL shooting, and implement changes to the discrepancies so it doesn't happen again.
4) Real funding and reform of the mental health system. Seems nobody wants to actually spend money on this.
5) Repeal the GFSZA. We all know it doesn't work.
6) Simplify national CCW reciprocity, perhaps into a 3 tier system. Each state can adopt the tier of standards they deem necessary, and must recognize other states permits at that tier or higher.
7) Maybe age and maturity is a factor. Allow sales of manually operated firearms at 18, and sales of handguns and semi-auto's at 21. I'm not too hung up on this one.
8) Pressure the media to stop making celebrities out of these scumbags. Yea yea I know, good luck with that, they love the ratings.
9) The breakdown of the family structure and morals is a large part of this, but I'm not sure what could be done about that.
10) A real court crackdown on criminal gun use sentencing, plea bargains, overcrowded jails of lesser crimes, and repeat offenders.

Now before anyone accuses me, I'm NOT interested in gun bans, mag limits, carry restrictions, registrations, LE personal denial of permits, GFZ, gun/ammo taxes, or any other stupid ignorant proposals.
Roast me if you'd like, I'm not a 2A absolutist or prohibitionist.

#9 is really the one that can work to reduce the number of crazies who want to perpetrate these carnages. The faster we find a way to swing society back to better morals and more respect for others the quicker these mass shootings will decline. #8 would help a lot too. Of course, these are the hardest ones to actually do anything about. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

BB

[Ghost]

I’m actually ok with 1-5. On ccw, I think we need uniform reciprocity and conformity with all requirements being the same. On age, then let’s stop kidding ourselves and not treat kids as adults until 21 for all purposes including voting. We already prevent them from buying handguns, alcohol, and let them stay on their parents insurance until 26 or whatever the heck it is now.


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Saw a quote on Instagram about the age thing.

"You can decide to alter your gender at age 6, get an abortion without parental consent at 13, but to exercise a constitutional right you must be over 21."

The age thing is really a non-factor in all of this but Trump spouted it off with no real facts to support it.

[xd ED]

Question about NICS Checks"

Does one get a binary answer , or more complete description of one's criminal background?
I'm thinking the system could get abused, or overwhelmed due to nefarious intent.

[Ghost]

Question about NICS Checks"

Does one get a binary answer , or more complete description of one's criminal background?
I'm thinking the system could get abused, or overwhelmed due to nefarious intent.

It's impossible to quantify if/how many attacks a background check has stopped.

I'd like to know what the percentage of killers that legally bought guns wouldn't have been able to if NICS were fully reported. I assume it's likely a fairly minimal effect.

[Tronster]

I know that some of the push back on CCW reciprocity is over who's standards do all the states adopt. The loosest the strictest? I'd hate to see our state adopt some of the ridiculous requirements such as listing allowed guns on the permit, providing proof of imminent threat, or reverting back to a 'may issue'. Certain states like CA, NJ or NY would never be on board with lower standards or 'shall issue' but I'd bet a majority of the states could agree on a middle of the road standard.

As far as age I agree that either we are adults at 18 or at 21. Pick one or the other for all 'adult' things such as guns, alcohol, strip clubs, voting, legal matters, etc. That was just brainstorming in light of recent age limit bills.

The private transfer NICS would just be a binary go/no-go with no denial reason given. Perhaps a website that can use information on a buyer's DL. No info about the gun would be used, simply a "can this person buy a gun" type of check.

[Citiot]

The private transfer NICS would just be a binary go/no-go with no denial reason given. Perhaps a website that can use information on a buyer's DL. No info about the gun would be used, simply a "can this person buy a gun" type of check.

It can work; but's it's an idea that will quickly lead to loss of rights.

This can work with a system where the buyer enables a one-time permission for the seller to use. DL# plus a one time PIN. The go/no go will provide a reference number. This will reduce abuse.

My employer does this sort of thing for allowing a potential employer or lender to confirm dates of employment/salary through a one-time PIN. I provide the employer/lender the 800 number to call, my PIN, name and last-4 SSN. Only can use once.

Again, it's an overall bad idea because it will lead to 100% background checks for all transfers and inevitable addition of registration to prove ownership.

I'm a reasonable man and tend to look for solutions... but I seem to be turning into a "no compromise","shall not be infringed" guy because of the anti-gun vitriol

[Ghost]

The private transfer NICS would just be a binary go/no-go with no denial reason given. Perhaps a website that can use information on a buyer's DL. No info about the gun would be used, simply a "can this person buy a gun" type of check.

It can work; but's it's an idea that will quickly lead to loss of rights.

This can work with a system where the buyer enables a one-time permission for the seller to use. DL# plus a one time PIN. The go/no go will provide a reference number. This will reduce abuse.

My employer does this sort of thing for allowing a potential employer or lender to confirm dates of employment/salary through a one-time PIN. I provide the employer/lender the 800 number to call, my PIN, name and last-4 SSN. Only can use once.

Again, it's an overall bad idea because it will lead to 100% background checks for all transfers and inevitable addition of registration to prove ownership.

I'm a reasonable man and tend to look for solutions... but I seem to be turning into a "no compromise","shall not be infringed" guy because of the anti-gun vitriol

If you have a permit to carry you shouldn't need any of it.

[Bearcatrp]

As far as age limits, why not do 21 for semi pistols/rifles. Let 18-20 learn on a bolt/wheel gun the responsibilities of a firearm. Mandatory gun training for 18-20 who want to purchase. Let them learn fundamentals. Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

Or an ISIS inspired bomb like in Utah. http://kutv.com/news/local/juvenile-arrested-admits-to-replacing-us-flag-with-isis-flag-at-hurricane-school

[goett047]

As far as age limits, why not do 21 for semi pistols/rifles. Let 18-20 learn on a bolt/wheel gun the responsibilities of a firearm. Mandatory gun training for 18-20 who want to purchase. Let them learn fundamentals. Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

Shall not be infringed.

[Ghost]

As far as age limits, why not do 21 for semi pistols/rifles. Let 18-20 learn on a bolt/wheel gun the responsibilities of a firearm. Mandatory gun training for 18-20 who want to purchase. Let them learn fundamentals. Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

I had semis under my bed with loaded magazines accessible when I was 15. An adult not being able to purchase something because they aren't adult enough is just plain ridiculous.

[Tronster]

If you have a permit to carry you shouldn't need any of it.

Alot of people don't have PTC but still want to buy or sell guns privately. I'd be much more comfortable selling to someone if I had more than just their 'word' to verify they are not a felon, drug addict, etc.

[Tronster]

Shall not be infringed.

Yes we all know the words of the 2A but guns should not be an unregulated free for all. I really don't care what kind of nostalgia anyone has about guns in their childhood, minors are not responsible or mature enough to be in possession of a gun unsupervised. Should a guy beating his wife have a gun? Someone who is strung out on meth have a gun? Let's be realistic and understand why there are restrictions on who can buy a gun.

[Ghost]

If you have a permit to carry you shouldn't need any of it.

Alot of people don't have PTC but still want to buy or sell guns privately. I'd be much more comfortable selling to someone if I had more than just their 'word' to verify they are not a felon, drug addict, etc.

My point is, you can do whatever you want with a background check as long as I or anybody else with a PTC can skip it. I’ve had enough background checks between purchases, permit, NFA, global entry, etc I’m a verified “good” guy.

In a perfect world you’d wouldn’t even need any of that and you should not be at all responsible for who you sell to. If they have enough money it’s theirs. You shouldn’t be responsible for anyone but yourself.

Background checks have been shown pointless and not effective.