School shooting in Maryland - resource officer did something

[Ghost]

Fathers gun

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/good-guy-gun-hails-another-stopping-maryland-school-shooter-n858766

Maryland school shooter used father's gun to go after ex-girlfriend

[Holland&Holland]

Fathers gun

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/good-guy-gun-hails-another-stopping-maryland-school-shooter-n858766

Maryland school shooter used father's gun to go after ex-girlfriend

Well then I would have to say death penalty for the dad then. Right? Isn't that where we landed?

[Ghost]

Fathers gun

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/good-guy-gun-hails-another-stopping-maryland-school-shooter-n858766

Maryland school shooter used father's gun to go after ex-girlfriend

Well then I would have to say death penalty for the dad then. Right? Isn't that where we landed?

Sure, if dad loaded it and said go shoot her.

If it was in his underwear drawer. No as far as I’m concerned.

[Holland&Holland]

If it was in his underwear drawer. No as far as I’m concerned.

Ok, I just got confused where we landed with this stuff, sorry

[Ghost]

If it was in his underwear drawer. No as far as I’m concerned.

Ok, I just got confused where we landed with this stuff, sorry

Seems some don’t agree with me and if a kid didn’t have to type in a twenty digit alpha numeric code with at least one caps and one special digit to open up the retna scan on the safe then the father should rot in hell.

[BigBlue]

Fathers gun

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/good-guy-gun-hails-another-stopping-maryland-school-shooter-n858766

Maryland school shooter used father's gun to go after ex-girlfriend

Well then I would have to say death penalty for the dad then. Right? Isn't that where we landed?

Jebuss... go to extremes much? I said responsibility. I didn't say equal punishment. Kind of have to assess the whole situation to know what was up.

Where are you coming from with your opposition to the idea of parental responsibility? Help me understand without just jumping off the deep end into fanatacism. Are you totally opposed to anyone being held responsible in any way for another's actions? Are you worried about some type of slippery slope where some imposition of responsibility leads to something worse? Please verbalize it instead of just responding like the above. Either that or don't and I'll just drop the subject here. Thanks.

[Holland&Holland]

Jebuss... go to extremes much? I said responsibility. I didn't say equal punishment. Kind of have to assess the whole situation to know what was up.

Where are you coming from with your opposition to the idea of parental responsibility? Help me understand without just jumping off the deep end into fanatacism. Are you totally opposed to anyone being held responsible in any way for another's actions? Are you worried about some type of slippery slope where some imposition of responsibility leads to something worse? Please verbalize it instead of just responding like the above. Either that or don't and I'll just drop the subject here. Thanks.

THAT is my concern. Once you step over the line you open up your home to regulations and government scrutiny and that will get extreme very quickly.

[BigBlue]

Jebuss... go to extremes much? I said responsibility. I didn't say equal punishment. Kind of have to assess the whole situation to know what was up.

Where are you coming from with your opposition to the idea of parental responsibility? Help me understand without just jumping off the deep end into fanatacism. Are you totally opposed to anyone being held responsible in any way for another's actions? Are you worried about some type of slippery slope where some imposition of responsibility leads to something worse? Please verbalize it instead of just responding like the above. Either that or don't and I'll just drop the subject here. Thanks.

THAT is my concern. Once you step over the line you open up your home to regulations and government scrutiny and that will get extreme very quickly.

I'm against that, as I said. I don't want the nanny state to impose ANY rules that have to be followed in advance. Just hold people responsible if they make bad decisions and someone else gets hurt. Everything I've been explaining above has been related to NO preventative restrictions.

So, given that we're not talking about rules and restrictions, just ramifications where do you find fault with having a parent have culpability for the actions of their child if they contribute to the issue or fail to try to prevent it?

[Holland&Holland]

Jebuss... go to extremes much? I said responsibility. I didn't say equal punishment. Kind of have to assess the whole situation to know what was up.

Where are you coming from with your opposition to the idea of parental responsibility? Help me understand without just jumping off the deep end into fanatacism. Are you totally opposed to anyone being held responsible in any way for another's actions? Are you worried about some type of slippery slope where some imposition of responsibility leads to something worse? Please verbalize it instead of just responding like the above. Either that or don't and I'll just drop the subject here. Thanks.

THAT is my concern. Once you step over the line you open up your home to regulations and government scrutiny and that will get extreme very quickly.

I'm against that, as I said. I don't want the nanny state to impose ANY rules that have to be followed in advance. Just hold people responsible if they make bad decisions and someone else gets hurt. Everything I've been explaining above has been related to NO preventative restrictions.

So, given that we're not talking about rules and restrictions, just ramifications where do you find fault with having a parent have culpability for the actions of their child if they contribute to the issue or fail to try to prevent it?

How culpable?

[BigBlue]

How culpable?

I'm not going to keep letting you drag me through questions. I've spelled out more than enough above. Either you tell me what you feel is the problem or let's just put this discussion to bed.

[Holland&Holland]

How culpable?

I'm not going to keep letting you drag me through questions. I've spelled out more than enough above. Either you tell me what you feel is the problem or let's just put this discussion to bed.

Ok, your choice. How can I answer you? You seem to what to criminalize parents for things their children do. Please lay out exactly what you mean by that.

[BigBlue]

Ok, your choice. How can I answer you? You seem to what to criminalize parents for things their children do. Please lay out exactly what you mean by that.

I don't mean anything specific because what I first typed above was an expression of the fact I think it is OK to hold parents responsible. I'm not proposing any new law or anything specific. Just that as a parent you have skin in the game related to what your kid does. You're opposing every suggestion of parental responsibility and I'm asking you what it is that bothers you. If all you can offer is that your interpretation of 'hold parents responsible' is to 'criminalize' them and 'give them the death penalty' then I guess you just take things to the extreme very quickly and not at all due to anything I said.

Every situation could be different. But "parent has no responsibility when minor child commits a crime" is not the right path.

I think we're done here though since you don't seem to want to explain yourself any further.

[Holland&Holland]

Ok, your choice. How can I answer you? You seem to what to criminalize parents for things their children do. Please lay out exactly what you mean by that.

I don't mean anything specific because what I first typed above was an expression of the fact I think it is OK to hold parents responsible. I'm not proposing any new law or anything specific. Just that as a parent you have skin in the game related to what your kid does. You're opposing every suggestion of parental responsibility and I'm asking you what it is that bothers you. If all you can offer is that your interpretation of 'hold parents responsible' is to 'criminalize' them and 'give them the death penalty' then I guess you just take things to the extreme very quickly and not at all due to anything I said.

Every situation could be different. But "parent has no responsibility when minor child commits a crime" is not the right path.

I think we're done here though since you don't seem to want to explain yourself any further.

I don't think I am the one claiming someone who did not commit the crime should be held responsible for the crime and then not putting specifics forward for what that means.

[Ghost]

Ok, your choice. How can I answer you? You seem to what to criminalize parents for things their children do. Please lay out exactly what you mean by that.

I don't mean anything specific because what I first typed above was an expression of the fact I think it is OK to hold parents responsible. I'm not proposing any new law or anything specific. Just that as a parent you have skin in the game related to what your kid does. You're opposing every suggestion of parental responsibility and I'm asking you what it is that bothers you. If all you can offer is that your interpretation of 'hold parents responsible' is to 'criminalize' them and 'give them the death penalty' then I guess you just take things to the extreme very quickly and not at all due to anything I said.

Every situation could be different. But "parent has no responsibility when minor child commits a crime" is not the right path.

I think we're done here though since you don't seem to want to explain yourself any further.

I’d like to hear one of your examples of when a parent is partially at fault.

[BigBlue]

I’d like to hear one of your examples of when a parent is partially at fault.

I already offered several. But I'll try to fill out more... One, when you are raising a kid and they start to get involved with gangs and you know it. Let's say the kid is 14 or 15 and you're letting them be out late at night (past 11pm, say) and they get involved with a gang initiation and carjack someone or kill another rival gang member. Parent knew the kid was getting involved with bad folks, let them have too much freedom and the kid hurt someone. That parent is responsible. I'm not going to speculate on what the right punishment is because I'm not an expert in that. But that parent is responsible.

Or you have a HS kid that has had past issues with depression, bullying, etc. History of troubles with emotional issues, emotional maturity, etc. Perhaps they have a girlfriend and you've seen how rocky the relationship is. Your kid gets dumped by the girl but you still leave your gun out and unlocked. Probably not the wise choice. You made a bad call and did something risky and your minor child takes the gun to school and shoots the girl (or the new boyfriend). You're partially responsible because you didn't secure your gun in a situation you should have known was degrading.

Am I alone here? The only person who thinks a parent should have some type of responsibility for the actions of their child in certain situations where there were red flags? I'm not saying every possible action of the kid goes back directly to the parent. Sometimes parents just don't know. Sometimes they did everything they could and the kid still does bad. Obviously discretion gets applied, as it should to any legal case.

Parenting these days sucks and being held responsible as I describe would help change that.