Red Flag Laws

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Red Flag Laws

Postby minnesotatv on Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:34 pm

You might want to forward this to others the you know -


From the Wall Street Journal, Aug 7 2019:

"A Yellow Light for Red-Flag Laws
By Alan M. Dershowitz

President Trump's proposal to "red flag" potential mass shooters is well-intentioned. If we could prevent even one mass killing by identifying and disarming the potential perpetrator beforehand, it would be worthwhile. But do we have the tools to do it, and at what cost to our constitutional rights?

I have studied, taught and written for half a century about the difficulties of predicting violence. My first scholarly article, in 1970, was titled "The Law of Dangerousness: Some Fictions About Predictions," and a subsequent book was titled "Preemption: A Knife That Cuts Both Ways" (2006). Research shows that any group of people identified as future violent criminals will contain many more who won't be violent (false positives) than who will (true positives). More true positives mean more false ones. Such groupings also fail to identify many future violent criminals (false negatives).

Be wary of denying individual rights based on predictions.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-yellow-l ... 1565132144
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Re: Red Flag Laws

Postby Grayskies on Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:15 pm

minnesotatv wrote:You might want to forward this to others the you know -


From the Wall Street Journal, Aug 7 2019:

"A Yellow Light for Red-Flag Laws
By Alan M. Dershowitz

President Trump's proposal to "red flag" potential mass shooters is well-intentioned. If we could prevent even one mass killing by identifying and disarming the potential perpetrator beforehand, it would be worthwhile. But do we have the tools to do it, and at what cost to our constitutional rights?

I have studied, taught and written for half a century about the difficulties of predicting violence. My first scholarly article, in 1970, was titled "The Law of Dangerousness: Some Fictions About Predictions," and a subsequent book was titled "Preemption: A Knife That Cuts Both Ways" (2006). Research shows that any group of people identified as future violent criminals will contain many more who won't be violent (false positives) than who will (true positives). More true positives mean more false ones. Such groupings also fail to identify many future violent criminals (false negatives).

Be wary of denying individual rights based on predictions.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-yellow-l ... 1565132144

And if more people die because of the law than are saved by it, is it still worthwhile?
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Re: Red Flag Laws

Postby Holland&Holland on Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:17 am

Grayskies wrote:
minnesotatv wrote:You might want to forward this to others the you know -


From the Wall Street Journal, Aug 7 2019:

"A Yellow Light for Red-Flag Laws
By Alan M. Dershowitz

President Trump's proposal to "red flag" potential mass shooters is well-intentioned. If we could prevent even one mass killing by identifying and disarming the potential perpetrator beforehand, it would be worthwhile. But do we have the tools to do it, and at what cost to our constitutional rights?

I have studied, taught and written for half a century about the difficulties of predicting violence. My first scholarly article, in 1970, was titled "The Law of Dangerousness: Some Fictions About Predictions," and a subsequent book was titled "Preemption: A Knife That Cuts Both Ways" (2006). Research shows that any group of people identified as future violent criminals will contain many more who won't be violent (false positives) than who will (true positives). More true positives mean more false ones. Such groupings also fail to identify many future violent criminals (false negatives).

Be wary of denying individual rights based on predictions.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-yellow-l ... 1565132144

And if more people die because of the law than are saved by it, is it still worthwhile?


Are you asking the left that question? Cause there answer is a resounding yes. Mass shooting deaths are worse than gang related deaths because we all know the gang bangers were just turning their lives around.
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Re: Red Flag Laws

Postby Grayskies on Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:10 pm

Holland&Holland wrote:
Grayskies wrote:
minnesotatv wrote:You might want to forward this to others the you know -


From the Wall Street Journal, Aug 7 2019:

"A Yellow Light for Red-Flag Laws
By Alan M. Dershowitz

President Trump's proposal to "red flag" potential mass shooters is well-intentioned. If we could prevent even one mass killing by identifying and disarming the potential perpetrator beforehand, it would be worthwhile. But do we have the tools to do it, and at what cost to our constitutional rights?

I have studied, taught and written for half a century about the difficulties of predicting violence. My first scholarly article, in 1970, was titled "The Law of Dangerousness: Some Fictions About Predictions," and a subsequent book was titled "Preemption: A Knife That Cuts Both Ways" (2006). Research shows that any group of people identified as future violent criminals will contain many more who won't be violent (false positives) than who will (true positives). More true positives mean more false ones. Such groupings also fail to identify many future violent criminals (false negatives).

Be wary of denying individual rights based on predictions.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-yellow-l ... 1565132144

And if more people die because of the law than are saved by it, is it still worthwhile?


Are you asking the left that question? Cause there answer is a resounding yes. Mass shooting deaths are worse than gang related deaths because we all know the gang bangers were just turning their lives around.

yes I am, I am not sure the left really understands that fewer guns equal more homicides.
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Re: Red Flag Laws

Postby Lumpy on Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:58 pm

Grayskies wrote:yes I am, I am not sure the left really understands that fewer guns equal more homicides.


The left sees only gun murders, and dismisses reports of defensive gun use as anecdotal.

The problem isn't red flag laws in and of themselves, but the shockingly low threshold it's proposed they can be invoked for. Look at child protection and custody conflicts to see what sorts of abuses would follow.
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Re: Red Flag Laws

Postby Grayskies on Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:28 pm

Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine: New gun measures crafted by Second Amendment supporters, will respect due process
Gov. Mike DeWine, R-Ohio, said his state's new proposed gun-control measures have been crafted by Second Amendment supporters and will respect due process, during an interview on "Fox News Sunday."


Guest host Bill Hemmer asked DeWine about red-flag law skeptics, saying many of them have voiced concerns about a potential lack of due process and the possible weaponization of such a measure. It would let a judge order the confiscation of firearms from certain people who pose threats.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/red-flag- ... ike-dewine
NRA Life Member & Certified Range Safety Officer
Honorably Discharged U.S. Army Veteran
General Class Amateur Radio Operator and ARRL VE and SkyWarn
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