Vista Outdoor reports a strong quarter

[yukonjasper]

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/vista-outdoor-announces-record-fy21-third-quarter-operating-results-301222049.html

Always good to see the firearms sector have strong results. I hope they stick around.......corp. tax rates are better in most other places right now.....

[Rip Van Winkle]

I'd say they're doing good.

[Holland&Holland]

Ya think? Have you seen the ammo shelves 5 mins after a delivery?

[Bearcatrp]

If Biden gets his way, from what I have read, he will cut off money from banks to all gun makers. Think I read this on a NRA email. You can't tell me hording is drying up the ammo supply. Dam government either stopped them or the bastards are buying it up!

[Holland&Holland]

If Biden gets his way, from what I have read, he will cut off money from banks to all gun makers. Think I read this on a NRA email. You can't tell me hording is drying up the ammo supply. Dam government either stopped them or the bastards are buying it up!

Then you have not seen hoarders. Federal had not slowed production.

[smurfman]

If Biden gets his way, from what I have read, he will cut off money from banks to all gun makers. Think I read this on a NRA email. You can't tell me hording is drying up the ammo supply. Dam government either stopped them or the bastards are buying it up!

Then you have not seen hoarders. Federal had not slowed production.

Where have you seen ammo in large enough quantities to hoard? Gander, Cabela's, Fleet Farm, Sportsman's Warehouse, Joe's, Capra's, Frontiersman, Outdoorsman, Arnzen, and a host of other places are out of stock just about any time one walks in. Scheel's has had some 9mm 2 of the 5 times I have been there but it wasn't all that much compared to pre-pandemic times. Even so, the employee I talked to stated they do not get ammo regularly.

Online stores aren't any different, they are out of stock on most products most of the time and when they do get stock in it is gone quickly. Put it on back order and one waits and waits and waits...

With Federal claiming to be producing more ammo than ever before, just where is it? I work in a store that sells sporting goods and I have yet to see any ammo brand show up on the regularity and amount of a year ago. With Walmart no longer carrying handgun ammo, that should be reflected in ammo deliveries at least equaling, if not exceeding, that of a year ago. They don't. And Federal is particularly absent as even FMJ 9mm by Remington has shown up on our store shelves much more often than Federal though that is not saying much.

Where we once got pallets of a single SKU of ammo we now get a single case or two with a red letter day having 4 or more cases of a mix of brands. A "pallet" is no longer waist high of a single SKU or maybe two of a single cartridge but maybe a knee high group of handgun, rifle, and mostly shotgun ammo of all brands. Based on my observations, I would like to know where all this ammo that is supposedly being made is going. It certainly isn't onto store shelves here and, from pictures and writings from other parts of the country it isn't showing up there either. One would think some rifle ammo would show up on occasion as some of that is on a nearly permanent line.

Winchester is no different other than not claiming to put out more ammo than before. Others that are missing in action are Fiocchi, Sig, and other "foreign" brands that have manufacturing in this country. They don't seem to be providing much to the market. The same goes for all the imports, they are conspicuous by their absence.

Something is causing the shortage but it isn't hoarders. There isn't enough ammo coming in to hoard plus so many places have a limit on the amount of ammo that can be bought that, coupled with the infrequency and small amounts coming in, hoarding is not really possible or feasible.

[photogpat]

Hoarders
New shooters

That’s it. Ammo supply chains don’t do well with boom and bust cycles like we saw in 2004...2007...2011...and today.

Guys are buying anything they see when they see it...when that’s stops, it gets back to normal.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s not teh guvernmint...it’s just a simple fact.

[Holland&Holland]

If Biden gets his way, from what I have read, he will cut off money from banks to all gun makers. Think I read this on a NRA email. You can't tell me hording is drying up the ammo supply. Dam government either stopped them or the bastards are buying it up!

Then you have not seen hoarders. Federal had not slowed production.

Where have you seen ammo in large enough quantities to hoard? Gander, Cabela's, Fleet Farm, Sportsman's Warehouse, Joe's, Capra's, Frontiersman, Outdoorsman, Arnzen, and a host of other places are out of stock just about any time one walks in. Scheel's has had some 9mm 2 of the 5 times I have been there but it wasn't all that much compared to pre-pandemic times. Even so, the employee I talked to stated they do not get ammo regularly.

Online stores aren't any different, they are out of stock on most products most of the time and when they do get stock in it is gone quickly. Put it on back order and one waits and waits and waits...

With Federal claiming to be producing more ammo than ever before, just where is it? I work in a store that sells sporting goods and I have yet to see any ammo brand show up on the regularity and amount of a year ago. With Walmart no longer carrying handgun ammo, that should be reflected in ammo deliveries at least equaling, if not exceeding, that of a year ago. They don't. And Federal is particularly absent as even FMJ 9mm by Remington has shown up on our store shelves much more often than Federal though that is not saying much.

Where we once got pallets of a single SKU of ammo we now get a single case or two with a red letter day having 4 or more cases of a mix of brands. A "pallet" is no longer waist high of a single SKU or maybe two of a single cartridge but maybe a knee high group of handgun, rifle, and mostly shotgun ammo of all brands. Based on my observations, I would like to know where all this ammo that is supposedly being made is going. It certainly isn't onto store shelves here and, from pictures and writings from other parts of the country it isn't showing up there either. One would think some rifle ammo would show up on occasion as some of that is on a nearly permanent line.

Winchester is no different other than not claiming to put out more ammo than before. Others that are missing in action are Fiocchi, Sig, and other "foreign" brands that have manufacturing in this country. They don't seem to be providing much to the market. The same goes for all the imports, they are conspicuous by their absence.

Something is causing the shortage but it isn't hoarders. There isn't enough ammo coming in to hoard plus so many places have a limit on the amount of ammo that can be bought that, coupled with the infrequency and small amounts coming in, hoarding is not really possible or feasible.

Go online. You can buy anything you want if you are willing to pay for it. 9mm at $69 per 50 for Fmj. I have personally been in fleet farm and cabelas’s during this and seen a cart of ammo in ffs case and a self full of 9mm herters at 13.99 at cabelas’s come out to the floor. In both cases it did not last 5 mins. Now I am not saying I did not grab my allowed 2 boxes myself, but I am not selling mine on line either. In fact the shotgun shells I scored at ff that day have already been shot.

Obviously I am not omnipotent so I do not know why you are not seeing it come your way but I do know for a fact that vista (federal ammo) is putting out ammo at full capacity. And there is no shortage really. Just an inflated market. If you want ammo just go on cheaper than dirt and buy it. They have plenty.

[Holland&Holland]

Ok, I am behind on the 9mm market. If you want 9mm you might need $99.99 for 50. Like I have said before, it is getting worse not better which is likely why you are seeing what you are seeing. And for Pats reasons above.

[Rip Van Winkle]

Hoarders
New shooters

That’s it. Ammo supply chains don’t do well with boom and bust cycles like we saw in 2004...2007...2011...and today.

Guys are buying anything they see when they see it...when that’s stops, it gets back to normal.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s not teh guvernmint...it’s just a simple fact.

Millions of new gun owners, WuFlu, riots and democrats taking control of government have created a perfect storm of ammo demand.

[xd ED]

Hoarders
New shooters

That’s it. Ammo supply chains don’t do well with boom and bust cycles like we saw in 2004...2007...2011...and today.

Guys are buying anything they see when they see it...when that’s stops, it gets back to normal.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s not teh guvernmint...it’s just a simple fact.

Millions of new gun owners, WuFlu, riots and democrats taking control of government have created a perfect storm of ammo demand.

Yep.

Any production slowdowns, or massive gov't buy offs would get exposed by industry insiders.
Pretty sure there would have been a shipping dock worker's cell phone pic of that semi load of 9mm headed for biden's basement.

[Sorcerer]

If you think ammo is bad look at Cabalas , Fleet Farm hand gun show cases. The other week FF Brooklyn Park had 2 hand guns in their show cases. I was out at Camping World/ Gander on Wednesday, they must have bought someone’s collection. Most everything in their show case was used. Worked in my favor. Found my hens tooth Kahr. Happy dance. The only place I’ve seen with a some what descent supply of new hand guns has been Scheels in Eden Prairie.

[Holland&Holland]

Honestly, Cheaper than Dirt is an awesome market indicator. As long as the prices keep going up you know every round that hits shelves is being bought, once their price starts to come down we will be on the other side of this bubble.

[Jackpine Savage]

Where we once got pallets of a single SKU of ammo we now get a single case or two with a red letter day having 4 or more cases of a mix of brands. A "pallet" is no longer waist high of a single SKU or maybe two of a single cartridge but maybe a knee high group of handgun, rifle, and mostly shotgun ammo of all brands. Based on my observations, I would like to know where all this ammo that is supposedly being made is going. It certainly isn't onto store shelves here and, from pictures and writings from other parts of the country it isn't showing up there either. One would think some rifle ammo would show up on occasion as some of that is on a nearly permanent line.

Winchester is no different other than not claiming to put out more ammo than before. Others that are missing in action are Fiocchi, Sig, and other "foreign" brands that have manufacturing in this country. They don't seem to be providing much to the market. The same goes for all the imports, they are conspicuous by their absence.

Something is causing the shortage but it isn't hoarders. There isn't enough ammo coming in to hoard plus so many places have a limit on the amount of ammo that can be bought that, coupled with the infrequency and small amounts coming in, hoarding is not really possible or feasible.

But back when there was a surplus, how long would a pallet of one SKU last, and how often did you get them? My guess is that now when everyone is out of stock and trying to order more, the suppliers are trying to give everyone a little.

[smurfman]

A pallet would typically last a month in the summer and 5-6 weeks in the winter. That would be one pallet of 20-40 cases depending if the case contained 10 or 20 boxes of ammo. Figure that in 9mm target ammo alone there were 7/8 different SKUs of 115 gr FMJ, 4 or 5 of 124/125 gr FMJ, and 2 of 147 FMJ and that there were several occasional SKUs such as Freedom Muntions, Aquila, Armscor, et al so there was a decent amount on the shelves and in the warehouse.

The same could be seen in all other cartridges though on a lesser scale. 45 ACP, 40 S&W, 380 ACP, 38 Spl were decent sellers though not quite on the scale of the 9mm. One could add about 15-25% more time between pallets with them.

Vista's claims of greater ammo production than ever before has not shown up in the stores. The pre-pandemic amounts were far greater per SKU than all handgun ammo combined over the last several months in both quantity and frequency. One rarely ran out of product on the shelf before a new pallet showed up. Such shortages were most often a purchasing or shipping problem of the company rather than a manufacturing problem. There should be even greater amounts of handgun and some rifle ammo available as Walmart dropped handgun and some rifle ammo not long before this all happened.

Now, a pallet will contain a couple cases of handgun ammo, if lucky, some rifle- maybe, and some shotgun shells that may reach two to three tiers high rather than several as happens with a full pallet. And those latter quantities may come in every two weeks as an average for the most common SKUs with months between less common SKUs.

Other stores aren't any better, greatly reduced quantities with longer delivery times are the rule. One can see this by the empty shelves upon looking. Online stores are in a similar boat as one sees "Out of Stock", "Unavailable", or other wording on most ammunition, especially handgun.

This is not just in regards to handgun ammo but to rifle and shotgun too. This is the first time I ever saw a complete sell out of rifle ammo and that the shelves are still bare months after the season is concerning. The same for shotshells as hunting loads ran out before the season opened in many cases and target loads have been very spotty since summer.

I don't believe the government is buying up the ammo and storing it nor do I think it is being warehoused to increase prices. As mentioned earlier, there are too many mouths that would need to remain quiet. The lack of product reaching the shelves negates new shooters and hoarders from shouldering the blame. After all, they can't buy what isn't there. One can't point to the largest retailers getting first dibs as even they don't have much stock to sell in most cases.

I do question the production totals based on earlier observations of stock amounts and availability. When a producer claims to be making more than ever but less than ever reach the stores, something is wrong. That this lack of product is across the board from all manufacturers is also strange. I would just like to know the truth - is ammunition being made as quickly as claimed and, if it is, where is it going? It surely is not showing up in the stores.