Lewiston Maine mass shooting

View · by **Markemp** on Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:44 am

https://www.npr.org/live-updates/maine- ... ng-manhunt

They are still looking for the guy. I'm hearing different numbers of confirmed dead (7, 16), but regardless, it looks like a pretty bad situation.

A manhunt is underway for a man who is considered a "person of interest" following a series of mass shootings in Lewiston, Maine, that left "multiple casualties," officials said Wednesday night.

Maine Public Safety Commissioner Mike Sauschuck said during a Wednesday night news conference that 40-year-old Robert Card of Bowdoin, Maine, should be considered armed and dangerous and that his car had been found in the nearby town of Lisbon.

Sauschuck said there have been multiple casualties, but declined to give a number of those killed and injured, saying the numbers "are all over the map." Sauschuck said the shootings began at 6:56 p.m. ET.

In a Facebook post, the Lewiston Police Department released what appeared to be a driver's license picture of Card. He appears to be the same person shown in surveillance images wearing a brown sweatshirt and carrying an AR-style long gun as he entered a bowling alley in an earlier photo released by authorities.

The department said members of the public should contact law enforcement if they have more information about his whereabouts.

View · by **Markemp** on Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:48 pm

Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though. :cry:

View · by **jdege** on Thu Oct 26, 2023 1:54 pm

Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

I've never understood red flag laws.
If a guy is a danger, why do you think taking those of his guns you can find then leaving him free to walk the streets is a good idea.

View · by **dismal** on Thu Oct 26, 2023 3:37 pm

Nobody wants a homicidal maniac with guns roaming the streets. Just like we shouldn’t want a homicidal manic without guns roaming the streets.

View · by **Lumpy** on Thu Oct 26, 2023 4:33 pm

This guy was an Army Reserve firearms instructor; literally the person entrusted to log guns in and out of locked storage. If that person smuggled weapons out of the armory to commit mass murder, not caring if anyone noticed the guns were missing because they didn't plan to survive, what could anyone do?

Nonetheless, I expect that despite this massacre being committed by someone with no priors, who already owned his gun bought legally through a FFL dealer and used only the one rifle and maybe a backup pistol, there will be calls to close the gun show loophole, institute mandatory background checks, a waiting period for gun purchases, and a limit to how many guns you can buy in a month. In other words, measures with zero application to this crime. And if called on it they'll say "it's at least a start".*

*to general gun prohibition, sure.

View · by **Holland&Holland** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 6:54 am

Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

Never let a tragedy go to waste right?

View · by **Jackpine Savage** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:40 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

Never let a tragedy go to waste right?

+1

I haven't seen anything about whether his mental health stay was voluntary or involuntary. Either way, it points to government incompetence. One more law isn't going to make a difference.

Mark Smith has a few words to say about it. About 13 minutes long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTdxhpOuylo

View · by **ex-LT** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 7:46 am

Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

You are correct, Maine doesn't have a red flag law - Maine's law requires that law enforcement get a medical practitioner to evaluate the person and find them to be a threat before they can petition a judge to order the person’s firearms to be seized. Given that the man was placed in an INVOLUNTARY psychiatric hold for two weeks, that should have allowed ample time for law enforcement to file a petition to seize his guns. They didn't.

You may not like it, but this is NOT an issue of not having enough gun laws, it's an issue of law enforcement not doing their job.

View · by **Chunkychuck** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:46 am

ex-LT wrote:
Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

You are correct, Maine doesn't have a red flag law - Maine's law requires that law enforcement get a medical practitioner to evaluate the person and find them to be a threat before they can petition a judge to order the person’s firearms to be seized. Given that the man was placed in an INVOLUNTARY psychiatric hold for two weeks, that should have allowed ample time for law enforcement to file a petition to seize his guns. They didn't.

You may not like it, but this is NOT an issue of not having enough gun laws, it's an issue of law enforcement not doing their job.

Or, it was an issue of law enforcement doing their job and waiting for the appropriate people to make the determination as to whether it was appropriate to file the paperwork with the judge.

View · by **crbutler** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:05 pm

Chicken/egg thing.

If they think the guy is a threat to himself or others, he doesn’t meet criteria for discharge from the hospital.

If he’s not a threat, how do you go to court and remove weapons?

The down side is lack of hospital beds and staffing (and finances) and also it’s not against the law to lie to a physician. Thus, he could rather significantly modify what the docs think he’s saying.

Sounds like he and his family own a lot of property in the area- it would also be very technically difficult to take all weapons he has access to.

I doubt a red flag law would have changed much (except who he targeted…)

View · by **Lumpy** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 2:54 pm

Okay, gotta dial back on the firearms instructor thing- apparently that's not the case according to latest updates.

View · by **vingrjoe** on Fri Oct 27, 2023 8:34 pm

Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

If only there was a law against murder...oh wait.

View · by **Holland&Holland** on Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:18 am

vingrjoe wrote:
Markemp wrote:Hmmm… this case is looking like the poster child for red flag laws. I don’t think Maine has one though.

If only there was a law against murder...oh wait.

Just make it illegaler

View · by **Lumpy** on Sat Oct 28, 2023 10:26 am

I keep hearing how gun-friendly Maine is; but no one in the places he attacked was carrying or shot back?

View · by **dismal** on Sat Oct 28, 2023 1:03 pm

Lumpy wrote:I keep hearing how gun-friendly Maine is; but no one in the places he attacked was carrying or shot back?

The bowling alley was a gun free zone: https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comme ... is_is_the/

Not sure about the other location.