MNGunTalk.com

For the time being, lead will no longer be produced in the USA. Importing will likely drive the price up...

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/28/end-of-an-era-last-u-s-lead-smelter-to-close-in-december/

In December, the final primary lead smelter in the United States will close. The lead smelter, located in Herculaneum, Missouri, and owned and operated by the Doe Run Company, has existed in the same location since 1892

...in 2008 the federal Environmental Protection Agency issued new National Ambient Air Quality Standards for lead that were 10 times tighter than the previous standard. Given the new lead air quality standard, Doe Run made the decision to close the Herculaneum smelter.

I am not a fan of EPA regulation but in this case I think the plant owners shot themselves in the foot.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/jury-awards-million-in-punitive-damages-in-herculaneum-smelter-case/article_7d3da89a-ba1a-11e0-846c-001a4bcf6878.html

In addition they may just be shutting down this plant to build another across the road.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro/lead-smelter-in-herculaneum-set-to-close-in/article_54400025-2940-5b3f-b753-6e931e596cac.html

So how much of our lead is imported right now?

Quite a bit of the new stuff is imported from Canada right now -- and the Herculaneum thing has been a known event for the last 18-24 months. Shouldn't change prices too much -- but all the environmental regulations do add up over time to increased cost for little net gain.

Just sayin'

Sadly, the NRA is whipping up the paranoia, so some areas may see shortages I reckon.

Kind of unrelated but next year I am switching to only steel shot for bird hunting just because more and more public land is non-toxic anyway. It has just become a hassle keeping lead and steel shot separated and such. I do hate steel though, you lose so much knock down power.

If mag tech can sell competitive ammo manufactured in South America, how could this have an impact?

sgruenhagen44 wrote:Kind of unrelated but next year I am switching to only steel shot for bird hunting just because more and more public land is non-toxic anyway. It has just become a hassle keeping lead and steel shot separated and such. I do hate steel though, you lose so much knock down power.

Have you tried Tungsten shot?

TTS wrote:

sgruenhagen44 wrote:Kind of unrelated but next year I am switching to only steel shot for bird hunting just because more and more public land is non-toxic anyway. It has just become a hassle keeping lead and steel shot separated and such. I do hate steel though, you lose so much knock down power.

Have you tried Tungsten shot?

No, try to keep it cheap but it probably is worth a try. IMO steel is worse for the environment just cuz I wound more roosters.

Ironbear wrote:For the time being, lead will no longer be produced in the USA. Importing will likely drive the price up...

China seems more than willing to share their lead with us. They even put it in baby toys.

Trust me. This will have little to NO effect on the lead supply to ammunition manufacturers. Why should you listen to me? I work for the sole supplier to the largest ammunition manufacturing plant in the country. We also supply nearly 100% of the lead to another VERY well known manufacturer here in MN.

Ammunition manufacturers use mostly all antimonial lead. They use very little pure lead, and when they do, it's NOT primary lead.

There are primary and secondary lead smelters. Primary is smelted from mined galena, and secondary is smelted and refined from used lead-acid batteries and refined to specification. The price difference is huge, and there is NO difference in the physical properties, so there is no reason for a manufacturer of ammunition to use primary lead. The only reason the battery manufacturers use it is for high end critical performance batteries in sensitive environments. There are less trace elements in primary lead, which lead to less risk of gassing in the battery.

So, who invited the sensible guy to the internetz forum?

JTapper wrote:Trust me. This will have little to NO effect on the lead supply to ammunition manufacturers. Why should you listen to me? I work for the sole supplier to the largest ammunition manufacturing plant in the country. We also supply nearly 100% of the lead to another VERY well known manufacturer here in MN.

Ammunition manufacturers use mostly all antimonial lead. They use very little pure lead, and when they do, it's NOT primary lead.

There are primary and secondary lead smelters. Primary is smelted from mined galena, and secondary is smelted and refined from used lead-acid batteries and refined to specification. The price difference is huge, and there is NO difference in the physical properties, so there is no reason for a manufacturer of ammunition to use primary lead. The only reason the battery manufacturers use it is for high end critical performance batteries in sensitive environments. There are less trace elements in primary lead, which lead to less risk of gassing in the battery.

too bad the Truth doesn't matter. whoever is advertising the shutdown is the reason the prices will stay up. if it was just some guy who found out about the shutdown, it would only see as much hype as the above. since I've seen this brought up in a video games forum firearm thread, I hope you don't mind if I quote your post there to try to counter the propaganda-probably to little effect.

Also thanks for letting me know.

Nougat wrote:

JTapper wrote:Trust me. This will have little to NO effect on the lead supply to ammunition manufacturers. Why should you listen to me? I work for the sole supplier to the largest ammunition manufacturing plant in the country. We also supply nearly 100% of the lead to another VERY well known manufacturer here in MN.

Ammunition manufacturers use mostly all antimonial lead. They use very little pure lead, and when they do, it's NOT primary lead.

There are primary and secondary lead smelters. Primary is smelted from mined galena, and secondary is smelted and refined from used lead-acid batteries and refined to specification. The price difference is huge, and there is NO difference in the physical properties, so there is no reason for a manufacturer of ammunition to use primary lead. The only reason the battery manufacturers use it is for high end critical performance batteries in sensitive environments. There are less trace elements in primary lead, which lead to less risk of gassing in the battery.

too bad the Truth doesn't matter. whoever is advertising the shutdown is the reason the prices will stay up. if it was just some guy who found out about the shutdown, it would only see as much hype as the above. since I've seen this brought up in a video games forum firearm thread, I hope you don't mind if I quote your post there to try to counter the propaganda-probably to little effect.

Also thanks for letting me know.

Have at it. Nothing drives me crazier than a misleading article. If you read carefully, they aren't lying about anything really, but they are severely misleading.

Oh no! No more primary lead in ammunition! Guess what, there isn't any use today anyways.

Does this mean the lead supply may be smaller? Maybe a little bit, but in the grand scheme of things, the Herkie plant is a drop in the bucket overall, and won't affect the ammo manufacturers. Today there is plenty of scrap, but my real worry for the future would be a shortage of scrap in the US. I'm guessing the scrap battery market could get pretty tight and nobody would ever think it would affect ammunition manufacturers, but that's where the real threat is.

I should also mention, since the article does not, that the EPA NAAQS standard for ambient lead concentrations goes into effect in 2016. The previous limit was 1.5 micrograms per cubic meter of air. The new limit is .15.