George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

[JeremiahMN]

Never said he couldn't be racist, I am simply pointing out the factual error in much of the media reporting of the case which has been sensationalized as some sort of white on black race killing...

I don't have enough facts to have an opinion either way (and those presented don't seem to be entirely consistent), rather than jump to one side or the other on this I'm hanging back until more information is available.

Must be watching some weird media. Everything I've seen reported indicated he was Hispanic.

[Heffay]

Never said he couldn't be racist, I am simply pointing out the factual error in much of the media reporting of the case which has been sensationalized as some sort of white on black race killing...

I don't have enough facts to have an opinion either way (and those presented don't seem to be entirely consistent), rather than jump to one side or the other on this I'm hanging back until more information is available.

Must be watching some weird media. Everything I've seen reported indicated he was Hispanic.

I think he's feeling a bit defensive.

[CraigJS]

The “stand your ground” law

Florida Statute 776.013 (3): "A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2 ... rylink=cpy

Note the first sentence in the statute. It says "and who is attacked", not who creates the violence. He was a WATCH captain, not a cop. The 911 operator said he didn't need to follow.. But yet he did, becomming somewhat of a stalker himself. Was the 911 op a cop, don't know. Seems reasonableness is in there, but WHO makes the decision. Is it street cop, sargent at the desk, chief, who?
I'm for a "stand your ground" law, just a BETTER written one. We are talking human life here not a loose dog..

[jdege]

So what do you base "who don't look like they belong" on?

Body language.

I've lived here for five years - in that time I've approached three people. In each of those cases, the person in question actually was lost - confused by our street layout - and I was able to provide them with some well-appreciated assistance.

You don't have to be confrontational.

[Heffay]

You don't have to be confrontational.

Woah woah woah! No need to be so confrontational! We get your point!!

Are you threatening us??

[steve4102]

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin


http://www.examiner.com/charleston-cons ... z1pttk2GEJ

[Snowgun]

Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin


http://www.examiner.com/charleston-cons ... z1pttk2GEJ

Interesting...:

All the way back on February 27th, the local Orlando Fox station interviewed the witness who dialed 911. Almost none of the thousands of articles since have mentioned any of the details described by the witness. Some, however, have attributed false statements to this witness. On March 16th, the Sanford police department released new details to the Orlando Sentinel. Once again, these details have been ignored or changed by the media.

The witness reports that George Zimmerman was on the ground and Trayvon is on top of him punching him.
The witness says that George Zimmerman was screaming and yelling for help.
Police arrive and find Zimmerman bleeding on his face and the back of his head. He also has had grass stains on his back. All this confirms the story told by Zimmerman and the witness.
Police play the 911 tape for Trayvon Martin's father, who tells police that the voice screaming is not the voice of his son.

The neighborhood this took place in has seen a lot of crime. Would you be surprised to learn that there were eight burglaries, nine thefts, and a shooting just in the past year? In fact, the local homeowners' association reports that George Zimmerman actually caught one thief and aided in the apprehension of other criminals. The Miami Herald wrote about this on March 17th. None of the thousands of articles and cable news segments that came after, thought this was important.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Zimmerman was on the ground being punched when he shot Trayvon Martin - Charleston Charleston Conservative | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/charleston-cons ... z1pzns2ZpU

Just goes to show that nobody can definitively say what went on, and parroting what the mob has spreading as rumor and speculation is idiotic. Everything should be taken with salt, even the above.

[gyrfalcon]

Note the first sentence in the statute. It says "and who is attacked", not who creates the violence. He was a WATCH captain, not a cop. The 911 operator said he didn't need to follow.. But yet he did, becomming somewhat of a stalker himself. Was the 911 op a cop, don't know. Seems reasonableness is in there, but WHO makes the decision. Is it street cop, sargent at the desk, chief, who? I'm for a "stand your ground" law, just a BETTER written one. We are talking human life here not a loose dog..

Following someone does not make you a stalker. Apparently you think the police officers who investigated this shooting are stupid and can't do their job since you're disagreeing with their determination. It's obvious they thought Zimmerman was attacked and had justification to use lethal force to defend himself according to the law.

If I'm walking down the street and someone starts following me, confronts me, or starts verbally yelling or accosting me I don't have the right to assault them, or use lethal force.

[aaron878]

Note the first sentence in the statute. It says "and who is attacked", not who creates the violence. He was a WATCH captain, not a cop. The 911 operator said he didn't need to follow.. But yet he did, becomming somewhat of a stalker himself. Was the 911 op a cop, don't know. Seems reasonableness is in there, but WHO makes the decision. Is it street cop, sargent at the desk, chief, who? I'm for a "stand your ground" law, just a BETTER written one. We are talking human life here not a loose dog..

Following someone does not make you a stalker. Apparently you think the police officers who investigated this shooting are stupid and can't do their job since you're disagreeing with their determination. It's obvious they thought Zimmerman was attacked and had justification to use lethal force to defend himself according to the law.

If I'm walking down the street and someone starts following me, confronts me, or starts verbally yelling or accosting me I don't have the right to assault them, or use lethal force.

If they attempt to detain you, they have committed battery, and perhaps assault, and you, as a 17-year-old child walking home from the store, have the right to defend yourself.

If I was in a similar situation and someone decided they wanted to stop me on the street, I would ignore them, if they grabbed at me I would lay them out, if they decided to draw on me, I would be legally justified to draw on them and kill them...

[gyrfalcon]

If they attempt to detain you, they have committed battery, and perhaps assault, and you, as a 17-year-old child walking home from the store, have the right to defend yourself.

There are a lot of 17 year olds that are very big, and in one year the person you refer to as a "child" would legally be an adult. I'm not arguing that Trayvon Martin didn't have a right to defend himself, if he was assaulted... but if Zimmerman tried to detain him (which there is no evidence of) how did Zimmerman reportedly end up on his back screaming for help? Did Trayvon Martin go all gangster and start beating the hell out of the guy because Zimmerman simply touched him or said something to him?

Would your opinions change if Trayvon Martin was a known member of a gang and 23 years old?

[aaron878]

If they attempt to detain you, they have committed battery, and perhaps assault, and you, as a 17-year-old child walking home from the store, have the right to defend yourself.

There are a lot of 17 year olds that are very big, and in one year the person you refer to as a "child" would legally be an adult. I'm not arguing that Trayvon Martin didn't have a right to defend himself, if he was assaulted... but if Zimmerman tried to detain him (which there is no evidence of)

From the 911 tape we know Zimmerman was following Martin, the fact that there was an altercation in the first place leads any reasonable person to conclude that Zimmerman caught up to Martin. Everything else is speculation, but I find it very hard to believe that Zimmerman caught up to him and didn't attempt to detain him.

how did Zimmerman reportedly end up on his back screaming for help? ...

I would speculate that Zimmerman caught up to Martin, possibly grabbed him by the shoulder from behind, at which point Martin turned and struck Zimmerman in the face causing him to fall to the ground. Zimmerman then grabbed his Kel-Tec and Martin seeing this lunged at it trying to disarm Zimmerman, and Zimmerman got a shot off.

Of course this is all fantasy, but so is everything up until the end of the 911 call, including Zimmerman's statement to the police, which was disproven by that very call.

Did Trayvon Martin go all gangster and start beating the hell out of the guy because Zimmerman simply touched him or said something to him?

You say it's not a crime to follow someone, but if it's night time and you are following (stalking from Martin's point of view, corroborated by the statement made by his girlfriend who was on the phone with him during the incident) and then you "simply touch" them, there is a very real implied threat, and it's battery.

Would your opinions change if Trayvon Martin was a known member of a gang and 23 years old?

If a convicted murderer on parole was walking home armed with an iced tea and some skittles, and a neighborhood watch captain with high hopes of becoming a police officer decided to call the police and then attempt to apprehend him on his own, and the incident happened the same exact same way, I would still say that Zimmerman was the aggressor in this situation, and he shot an unarmed man.

There is a reason police are trained to subdue suspects, prefer to have a partner available when confronting someone, and they carry non-lethal weapons.

Public opinion will not stand for this nonsense, and it's very unfortunate, but Zimmerman has validated every single fear-mongering statement the anti-gun people have put forward in debating stand-your-ground laws and his actions have made it so sensible people trying to defend themselves in the event of a shooting are going to have a much harder time.

[gyrfalcon]

From the 911 tape we know Zimmerman was following Martin, the fact that there was an altercation in the first place leads any reasonable person to conclude that Zimmerman caught up to Martin. Everything else is speculation, but I find it very hard to believe that Zimmerman caught up to him and didn't attempt to detain him.

Of course he caught up to Martin, or Martin caught up to him. How else would Zimmerman have gotten a beat up? Maybe he hit himself and got the witnesses that testify on his behalf.

It's very clear you've made up your mind on this case and believe Zimmerman is at fault and should be prosecuted as a murderer. A video could be released tomorrow that completely corroborates Zimmerman's statements and there would still be animosity and disagreement.

Trayvon Martin may have been murdered by Zimmerman, but the initial police investigation didn't find evidence of this. It seems like you want the police to arrest and convict people without evidence based on speculation and public outcry?

Lets say Zimmerman grabbed/stole the Skittles from Martins pocket, or cussed at Martin with racial epitaphs... Then Martin attacked him and started to beat him up. Do you think Zimmerman no longer has right to defend himself with lethal force?

[infidel]

JeremiahMN wrote: I listened to the 911 call and it sure does sound like he said "F*ckin Coon" under his breath while he admits to following the person.

I am still waiting for the link where one would hear these alleged racial epitaphs you speak of.

[infidel]

Today, I was stopped for walking home while white. Thank god I was on the boulevard, not the street.... Last time they pulled me over walking home, they said I looked like a perp that committed a crime a week ago ($500 fine and court costs, I was not the perp they were looking for, I am not a perp period). Today no charges. Papers please. First question is are you walking home from the bar. I say no, they let me go.

Thank God I wasn't wearing a hoodie.

[aaron878]

JeremiahMN wrote: I listened to the 911 call and it sure does sound like he said "F*ckin Coon" under his breath while he admits to following the person.

I am still waiting for the link where one would hear these alleged racial epitaphs you speak of.

http://youtu.be/jL72w4xiTVU

Roughly the 2:20 second mark of the tape he says "fu*^ing coons" under his breath, but listen to the whole thing if you haven't heard it before.