British man hacked to death

[NMRMN]

But back to the topic at hand.

The Investigative Project on Terrorism found that Islam and terrorism are NOT linked.

Not even al-Qaeda can now be called 'Islamic' or 'Muslim'. It would have come as a surprise to Osama bin Laden, were he still alive, that he was not a Muslim and that he didn't control an Islamic terrorist network. Indeed this is a surprise to me, as it will be to the millions of non-Muslims who do see a strong connection between Islam and violence.

Apparently it was George W. Bush who got it all wrong. He made the illogical and 'Islamophobic' conclusion that Islam and terrorism are indeed intertwined. Actually that's not quite right. He rightly concluded that 'militant Islam' and terrorism are intertwined. More specifically, a Bush-era document described the war against terrorists as "the struggle against militant Islamic radicalism... the great ideological conflict of the early years of the 21st century".

This is thought control. It's all really about words; not about realities or actions.

emphasis mine -- read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/06/ ... orism.html

[TommyMN]

This is getting laughable. "It's not religion, it's ideology" "it's not religion, it's government"

Funny how the bible thumpers attempt to cling to twisted facts on other religions but not towards their own.

[DoxaPar]

I live around a lot of Muslims and never have an issue with any of them. Nearly all make good neighbors, want to live peaceably, raise their kids, want them to do well, are polite and well behaved in my home and are better neighbors and most of those around here who would call themselves Christian.

Religion really has little to do with this problem - radical ideologies, regardless of whether they are backed up with political or religious arguments is the issue.

Arguing over "who killed more people, religion or government" is to overlook the problem and is nothing more than to argue over which is the greater perpetrator.

[DoxaPar]

Also, interestingly, no one has commented on the exact transcript of the murderer's on-camera statements.

Why not let this guy speak for himself and judge the motive for the killings on the basis of his own words?

Here is the full video and transcript:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=37e_1369335448

"The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are
dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one. It is
an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the
almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone.
So what if we want to live by the Shari'a in Muslim lands? Why does
that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and
kill us? Rather you lot are extreme. You are the ones that when you drop
a bomb you think it hits one person? Or rather your bomb wipes out a
whole family? This is the reality. By Allah if I saw your mother today
with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we
are forced by the Qur'an, in Sura At-Tawba, through many ayah in the
Qu'ran, we must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth
for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our
lands women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove
your governments, they don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is
going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? You
think politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average
guy, like you and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring
our troops back so can all live in peace. So leave our lands and we can
all live in peace. That’s all I have to say. [in Arabic:] Allah’s peace
and blessings be upon you."

What do you think he uses to justify the murder?

As is almost always the case his gripe is political and yet he uses religion to justify it.

[NMRMN]

This is getting laughable. "It's not religion, it's ideology" "it's not religion, it's government"

Funny how the bible thumpers attempt to cling to twisted facts on other religions but not towards their own.

What exactly has been 'twisted'?

What is laughable is bigoted secularists trying to pin the atrocities of the world on 'religion', when it is obvious from the numbers that regimes adhering to atheist political ideologies such as marxist communism are responsible for the bulk of unjust human deaths in the 20th century.

Equally laughable are those who insist that the modern terrorist threat has nothing to do with Islam.

Is this a Heffay sock puppet acct?

[NMRMN]

Radical ideologies, regardless of whether they are backed up with political or religious arguments is the issue.

How about radical pacifism?

...And furthermore, who gets to define 'radical'?

Arguing over "who killed more people, religion or government" is to overlook the problem and is nothing more than to argue over which is the greater perpetrator.

True.

But WHO/WHAT is the 'problem'? Is there no sense in determining the identity of the criminal is before you take them to trial? I do not condone the practice of profiling, but to dismiss altogether the relationships between ideologies (government or religious, etc) and practice is likely unhelpful to the process.

BTW -- you are doing the same thing in declaring it is not governmentalism or religionism -- it is 'radicalism'.

[Snakeman721]

Also, interestingly, no one has commented on the exact transcript of the murderer's on-camera statements.

Why not let this guy speak for himself and judge the motive for the killings on the basis of his own words?

Here is the full video and transcript:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=37e_1369335448

"The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are
dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one. It is
an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. By Allah, we swear by the
almighty Allah we will never stop fighting you until you leave us alone.
So what if we want to live by the Shari'a in Muslim lands? Why does
that mean you must follow us and chase us and call us extremists and
kill us? Rather you lot are extreme. You are the ones that when you drop
a bomb you think it hits one person? Or rather your bomb wipes out a
whole family? This is the reality. By Allah if I saw your mother today
with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we
are forced by the Qur'an, in Sura At-Tawba, through many ayah in the
Qu'ran, we must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth
for a tooth. I apologise that women had to witness this today but in our
lands women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove
your governments, they don’t care about you. You think David Cameron is
going to get caught in the street when we start busting our guns? You
think politicians are going to die? No, it’s going to be the average
guy, like you and your children. So get rid of them. Tell them to bring
our troops back so can all live in peace. So leave our lands and we can
all live in peace. That’s all I have to say. [in Arabic:] Allah’s peace
and blessings be upon you."

What do you think he uses to justify the murder?

As is almost always the case his gripe is political and yet he uses religion to justify it.

While he went to an extreme end to convey his message, I totally agree with him. We need to get the Hell out of everybody else's business. Bring ALL of our troops home and let all these corrupt governments fight among themselves! It is NOT our duty to go into a foreign country and tell them how to run it!

[NMRMN]

I live around a lot of Muslims and never have an issue with any of them. Nearly all make good neighbors, want to live peaceably, raise their kids, want them to do well, are polite and well behaved in my home

This is not the point. There is absolutely no question that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, decent folk. We live in an ostensibly free country, and all people should have the right to exercise their religion. To hold a dim view of Islam or correctly behold the terrorist threat within Islam does not give one the right to infringe on the rights of Muslims, regardless.

I don't just don't need government insisting I accept the merits or lack of re: ANY given ideology, or infringing on my right to freedom of speech.

###

We need to get the Hell out of everybody else's business. Bring ALL of our troops home and let all these corrupt governments fight among themselves! It is NOT our duty to go into a foreign country and tell them how to run it!

I agree in principle, and I am NOT commenting on Iraq or Afghanistan -- but as an absolute? Is there any moral imperative to (for example) join in the fight against Hitler's and Mussolini's fascism, for the sake of those massacred, for the sake of our own safety, for the sake of world peace?

This is commenting. *warning* - language: http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/ ... 351056.jpg

###

And back to ideology --

Note how he contrasted the Qur'an with his innate sense of kindness, and basically apologizes for his actions.

By Allah if I saw your mother today with a buggy I would help her up the stairs. This is my nature. But we are forced by the Qur'an, in Sura At-Tawba, through many ayah in the Qu'ran, we must fight them as they fight us.

Sura At-Tawba, In which lies the 'infamous' sword verse.

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_5

###

The only reason we have killed this man today is because Muslims are dying daily by British soldiers. And this British soldier is one.

But ultimately, yes. America does the exact same thing as militant Islam -- we invade countries under the pretense of our 'moral' law, and kill people. Not excluding children.

[Garret7857]

Me and my dad were just talking about how the UK's gun ban lead to more baseball bat (or cricket bat) beatings over there.