George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Discussion of firearm-related news stories. Please use "Off Topic" for non-firearm news.
Forum rules
Do NOT post the full text of published articles. If you would like to discuss a news story please link to it and, at most, include a brief summary of the article.

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby infidel on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:16 pm

aaron878 wrote:
illbits wrote:I heard that he lost track of the kid and was walking back to his vehicle when he was suddenly attacked.


Can you please point me to the news story that states this? I've read many articles but this wasn't in any of them.

I have read that the 911 calls contradict Zimmerman's statement. But I haven't seen his statement because it wasn't released and Zimmerman hasn't commented to the press.


In your posts, you have already convicted. What do you need evidence for. Look in the mirror at a racist, you only think in black and white.
“If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.” - John Ashley

Disclaimer: Do not assume from this post, that I either agree or disagree with any other issue brought up in this thread.
User avatar
infidel
 
Posts: 2103 [View]
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:34 pm

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby Heffay on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:17 pm

illbits wrote:
Heffay wrote:
illbits wrote:You have no idea what you're talking about. The absence of provocation or aggression is one of the cornerstones of a self-defense argument in MN. I don't say this often but GET OFF MY SIDE.


So you should be able to defend yourself absent any threat or aggression??

Are you suggesting that you should be able to shoot someone if you "feel" afraid? :o :o :o

Very funny Heffay. The absence of provocation or aggression on the part of the person claiming self defense is what I meant. In other words the defendant must be an unwilling participant. You can't go kick someone's ass and shoot them when you lose. Where do you come up with this sh!t. I guess you think it's fun to deliberately spread misinformation.


I knew I must have misunderstood you. This doesn't appear to be a case with an absence of provocation or aggression. Also, the stand your ground laws being discussed don't mention that at all, as far as I can see. But you're opposed to having that put into the stand your ground law? Why?
To the two forum members who have used lines from my posts as their signatures, can't you quote Jesse Ventura or some other great Minnesotan instead of stealing mine? - LePetomane
User avatar
Heffay
 
Posts: 8842 [View]
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:39 am

George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby aaron878 on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:22 pm

infidel wrote:
aaron878 wrote:
illbits wrote:I heard that he lost track of the kid and was walking back to his vehicle when he was suddenly attacked.


Can you please point me to the news story that states this? I've read many articles but this wasn't in any of them.

I have read that the 911 calls contradict Zimmerman's statement. But I haven't seen his statement because it wasn't released and Zimmerman hasn't commented to the press.


In your posts, you have already convicted. What do you need evidence for. Look in the mirror at a racist, you only think in black and white.

Pretty sure I've consistently said that the race issue is beside the point.

Keep spinning though, if you keep babbling someone may believe you.
aaron878
 
Posts: 181 [View]
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:43 pm

George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby illbits on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:24 pm

JeremiahMN wrote:So your in agreement that Zimmerman should be arrested? The 911 call clearly he states he was following this kid. That seems pretty willing to enter the situation.

If he tried to forcefully detain the kid I would call that assault and aggression. He is not authorized to do that under the circumstances. On the other hand, if he followed and observed as neighborhood watch fold are trained to do by the police and was then suddenly attacked as he claimed in his statement, then it would be a matter of wheather he was assaulted with deadly force. I have not made up my mind on his guilt or innocence, and anyone who has without the facts is just witch hunting. I'll say it again, wait for the facts if you plan to judge him.
Last edited by illbits on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
illbits
 
Posts: 607 [View]
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: NE Minneapolis

George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby illbits on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:26 pm

Heffay wrote:I knew I must have misunderstood you. This doesn't appear to be a case with an absence of provocation or aggression. Also, the stand your ground laws being discussed don't mention that at all, as far as I can see. But you're opposed to having that put into the stand your ground law? Why?

Because it is already codified in law appropriately. Stand your ground law won't erase existing self defense law except for the duty to retreat.
illbits
 
Posts: 607 [View]
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: NE Minneapolis

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby Heffay on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:30 pm

illbits wrote:Because it is already codified in law appropriately. Stand your ground law won't erase existing self defense law except for the duty to retreat.


But apparently it isn't, because others have used stand your ground to defend aggressive actions.

Why are you opposed to codifying the requirement? You only get protection from stand your ground if you act in the manner you are suggesting, but you don't want the law to actually say that?
To the two forum members who have used lines from my posts as their signatures, can't you quote Jesse Ventura or some other great Minnesotan instead of stealing mine? - LePetomane
User avatar
Heffay
 
Posts: 8842 [View]
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:39 am

George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby illbits on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:33 pm

Heffay wrote:
illbits wrote:Because it is already codified in law appropriately. Stand your ground law won't erase existing self defense law except for the duty to retreat.


But apparently it isn't, because others have used stand your ground to defend aggressive actions.

Why are you opposed to codifying the requirement? You only get protection from stand your ground if you act in the manner you are suggesting, but you don't want the law to actually say that?
Because it is already codified in law appropriately.
illbits
 
Posts: 607 [View]
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: NE Minneapolis

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby Humphrey Bogart on Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:47 pm

Is there a George Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund anywhere?

This guy is backed up against the wall and alone.

Al Sharpton and Farrakan want to string this guy up.

The local 'neighborhood watch' foot patrols go un-armed

Awareness,
Avoidance,
De-Escalation,
Retreat.

Call 911,
Be a Good Witness.

I think this incident will 'retire' the phrase 'Stand your ground' (although that has orgins in a Kentucky Supreme Court ruling, I believe.)

Better start using 'Defense of Dwelling and Person'
User avatar
Humphrey Bogart
 
Posts: 487 [View]
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:28 pm
Location: Operator slash Commando

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby infidel on Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:06 pm

infidel wrote: In your posts, you have already convicted. What do you need evidence for. Look in the mirror at a racist, you only think in black and white.


aaron878 wrote: Pretty sure I've consistently said that the race issue is beside the point.

Keep spinning though, if you keep babbling someone may believe you.


aaron878, I really am sorry for implicating you in something you did not do. I had you confused with someone else. Seriously you have my apology. Twice in one week I am eating crow.
“If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the A-Team.” - John Ashley

Disclaimer: Do not assume from this post, that I either agree or disagree with any other issue brought up in this thread.
User avatar
infidel
 
Posts: 2103 [View]
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:34 pm

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby Heffay on Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:38 pm

illbits wrote:Because it is already codified in law appropriately.



Apparently not, as others have pointed out. At this point, the only reason I can figure out for your opposition to what I'm saying is that I'm saying it.

Bye.
To the two forum members who have used lines from my posts as their signatures, can't you quote Jesse Ventura or some other great Minnesotan instead of stealing mine? - LePetomane
User avatar
Heffay
 
Posts: 8842 [View]
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:39 am

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby jdege on Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:28 pm

illbits wrote:In other words the defendant must be an unwilling participant.

I've pointed it out before, and I'm going to do it again.

There's nothing in Minnesota law about being an "unwilling participant". It's not in statute, it's not in case law, it's not there, period.

Despite what it says in Joel's book.
User avatar
jdege
 
Posts: 4500 [View]
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:07 am

George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby illbits on Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:46 am

MN Supreme Court, State VS Basting 1997
illbits
 
Posts: 607 [View]
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: NE Minneapolis

George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby illbits on Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:03 am

Heffay wrote:
illbits wrote:Because it is already codified in law appropriately.



Apparently not, as others have pointed out. At this point, the only reason I can figure out for your opposition to what I'm saying is that I'm saying it.

Bye.

Are you implying that would not be a good enough reason? SERIOUSLY???
illbits
 
Posts: 607 [View]
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:54 pm
Location: NE Minneapolis

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby jdege on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:21 am

illbits wrote:MN Supreme Court, State VS Basting 1997

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-supreme-court/1180453.html does not contain the phrase "unwilling participant".
User avatar
jdege
 
Posts: 4500 [View]
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 10:07 am

Re: George Zimmerman - Florida Unarmed Teen Shooting

Postby CraigJS on Sun Mar 25, 2012 7:58 am

The elements of self-defense are (1) the absence of aggression or provocation on the part of the defendant;  (2) the defendant's actual and honest belief that he or she was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm;  (3) the existence of reasonable grounds for that belief;  and (4) the absence of a reasonable possibility of retreat to avoid the danger.  State v. McKissic, 415 N.W.2d 341, 344 (Minn.App.1987) (citing State v. Johnson, 277 Minn. 368, 373, 152 N.W.2d 529, 532 (1967));  Minn.Stat. § 609.06, subd. 1(3) (1996).9  The degree of force used in self-defense must not exceed that which appears to be necessary to a reasonable person under similar circumstances.  McKissic, 415 N.W.2d at 344 (citing State v. Bland, 337 N.W.2d 378, 381 (Minn.1983)).   A defendant has the burden of going forward with evidence to support a claim of self-defense.   State v. Graham, 371 N.W.2d 204, 209 (Minn.1985).   Once it is raised, the state has the burden of disproving one or more of these elements beyond a reasonable doubt.  State v. Spaulding, 296 N.W.2d 870, 875 (Minn.1980).

Close enough for me!

Taken from here: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mn-supreme-c ... 80453.html
CraigJS
 
Posts: 642 [View]
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 7:58 am

PreviousNext

Return to In The News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron