"I am Adam Lanza's Mother"

[Skarrde]

Not saying it is right or wrong, but didn't we used to have mental institutions to lock crazy people up in?

If you really have a kid like this, what can you do?

That's the problem TTS, much like she said in her article what can you do? As I have a family member that has some issues like this I know how hard it is to be in this situation. There aren't alot of places that are still open and available for parents and family members to send their kids. The place that was close by for us has been closed and now the closest place we could send the person is over 3 hrs away. Makes it difficult to be able to visit them and to help them handle the situation a little better. So then it becomes a question of do you keep the person home and try to take care of them yourself or do you send him to a place far away where they may not be taken care of really. Usually those places are so understaffed that they have to mix the very violent with the not so violent people. And if you do think about sending them off there is no guarantee that they have the beds available either.

Just food for thought.

[farmerj]

The fact that tman actually sees kids like this is reason enough to take the original article at face value and ensure the topic of mental illness rises to the top.

In 1994, I swore that by the time my step-son was 20, he would be in prison. he was 8 years old at the time. I did everything I could to get him help. Counselling with the schools, the church, the county, took him to Lakeland Mental health in Moorhead and even to Fergus Falls.

In the end, it got me charged with domestic assault, child abuse and a whole slug of other things for trying to stop him from beating on his mom, terrorizing animals, restraining him from hitting himself, others and trying to physically harm people. His temper tantrums were amazing for an 8 or 9 yo boy. As a 25 yo male who worked construction and such, I SHOULD have been able to restrain him but I couldn't when needed.

I was told I was too over bearing, that it's normal for kids to pull on cats/dogs tails. To kick animals. Uh...NO, it's not normal. We would buy things for him and he would destroy things out of being vindictive.

When he was 19 years old, some 11 years later, I found out he was in prison for molesting a 13 yo boy. 3rd degree criminal sexual conduct.

Should his victim have had to suffer at his hands? hell no. he was labelled as oppositional defiant disorder, ADHD, border line schizophrenic and a couple other things. When I learned he was being released, I called and spoke to his prison case worker and wanted to know WHAT I could to to keep this predator away from my daughters. It was alluded to that I have and should be every bit concerned should he get around them. But their hands were tied and there was nothing I, nor they could do to protect my daughters.

And now I have to wonder what happens the my girls when this trash is around them. half brother or not.....

[tman]

Not saying it is right or wrong, but didn't we used to have mental institutions to lock crazy people up in?

If you really have a kid like this, what can you do?

MN has gone from large institutions to the "community based treatment model" which uses 4 -12 or 16 bed homes. The theory is that the PATIENT'S needs are better met in the community.

That is a shift from the PUBLIC'S needs are better met if they are "out of sight, out of mind." -

Sorry for the blunt reply, but I'm short of time... Discuss this, though...

[TTS]

Not saying it is right or wrong, but didn't we used to have mental institutions to lock crazy people up in?

If you really have a kid like this, what can you do?

MN has gone from large institutions to the "community based treatment model" which uses 4 -12 or 16 bed homes. The theory is that the PATIENT'S needs are better met in the community.

That is a shift from the PUBLIC'S needs are better met if they are "out of sight, out of mind." -

Sorry for the blunt reply, but I'm short of time... Discuss this, though...

I am not so worried about "them" being out of sight, more that if they are a danger to themselves and the public, they can be secured.

[sochr000]

I manage a group home in Bemidji, we have a few adults with serious and persistent mental illness, some with a violent history. The idea behind the "Community Based Treatment Model" is that it's not only more humane, but better for therapy/recovery as the staffing is (on average) 1:3 staff to clients for group homes, and a state hospital is more like 1:30. Try getting the attention of a worker to tell them something isn't working correctly with your new med, when there are 29 other people trying to get that same one person's attention.

Although there are still mental health hospitals in the state, such as the CBHH (Community Behavioral Health Hospital) system, or the more restrictive St. Peter or Anoka Metro.

What really needs to be happening, and this would be awesome, is to somehow get rid of the stigma associated with mental health issues (nobody wants to be "crazy"). Also, get people the treatment they need, without a mandatory criminal record. Without some awesome insurance, you typically need to be arrested to get access to the mental health system.

People would be more willing to get the help they need, if it didn't require losing a lot of their rights...

[20mm]

I am not so worried about "them" being out of sight, more that if they are a danger to themselves and the public, they can be secured.

Like guns should be.

[farmerj]

the beauty of our legal system....

Unfortunately, that means they HAVE to become a danger to others FIRST before they can be locked up.

[chunkstyle]

So tman, with your experience - What do you think is the best way to deal with Michael?

Obviously the best way to deal with Michael is to buy an AR-15 and not secure it adequately because you can't afford a safe. Then call tman to do a welfare check.

Wow. This is right up there among the suckiest posts evar.

[TTS]

The gunman who slaughtered 20 children and six adults at a Connecticut elementary school may have snapped because his mother was planning to commit him to a psychiatric facility, according to a lifelong resident of the area who was familiar with the killer’s family and several of the victims’ families.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/18/fe ... z2FSJUc9rs

[crbutler]

I didn't really want to get in to this topic, but it seems there is some misconception around here about the mental health system here.

Minnesota has 5 types of civil commitments. All have to be given by a judge in district (state) court.

First off is Chemically Dependent. Pretty self explanatory. This is how the system will lock someone up in an involuntary drug treatment program. Typically, it is for a time frame to complete the treatment program.

Secondly is Developmentally Delayed - this used to be Mentally Retarded. This is how they put folks in a custodial setting who are too cognitively impaired to function in society and don't follow the rules.

Thirdly is a combination SDP/SPP. Stands for Sexually Dangerous Person/Sexually Psychopathic Person- this is how the state commits people to the State's sex offender program. These actually have different definitions legally. If you get one of these, you already are a Level 3 predatory offender, but this is not a issue related to firearms.

The most common commitment is Mentally Ill. This means that a person is so mentally ill that they are a risk to themselves or others. Again, a judge is the only person who can put this label on someone. This is the classic involuntary commitment. This commitment lasts for 6 months at most. If it needs to be kept longer, then they need to go before a judge again. This commitment will permanently affect your gun rights.

The final type is Mentally Ill and Dangerous to the public. This person met the statutory guidelines for mentally ill, and furthermore has a history of dangerous acts that meets a further guideline (usually a dangerous assault or killing someone, but it is really up to the judge) that requires more significant monitoring. If the individual is committed with this type of a commitment, they usually get out of an institution on a process called provisional discharge (which requires multiple steps and a ruling by a State Supreme court panel) in which they are released from the institution but can be sent back in at the request of the Medical Director of the State Security hospital. (AKA revocation of Provisional Discharge). This commitment is initially placed for 1 year, and then would be finalized at that point by the court. Once finalized, it is life long unless a court will go in and expunge the commitment- which is very rare. This commitment also, obviously, bans gun rights.

There is also the 72 hour hold. This is where someone thinks that a person is an imminent risk to them self or others due to their illness. This may be placed by either a police officer (Police hold) or a medical doctor (MD or DO) (physician's hold). If this happens, the person involved is either released within 3 working days or a Judge will rule probable cause within that time frame and hold them for a hearing on formal commitment. The formal request for the commitment is handled by the county attorney. A patient is allowed to have an attorney for this hearing, but an attorney cannot stop the hold itself. It is not unusual for a continuance until further facts are obtained. I am not sure if this can be held as grounds for denial of a gun, as it does not meet due process of law, but it does meet the wording for the ATF form. This is not started unless the patient states that he is refusing to get the recommended care.

There are other proceedings done to force medications and treatments- being committed does not allow forcing treatment of the mental illness.

As you can see there is a lot of time involved in the legal procedures, and as such it does tend to get in the way of actually treating some folks. Unless someone gets declared MI&D there is no way to make sure that they keep taking an effective medication- if they are committed MI, and respond to a medication, 6 months later on meds, they are no longer a danger to themselves or others, and they cannot be committed without that part, and the judge cannot write restrictions to their freedom, as they have no grounds to do so legally.

Also, FYI, the staffing level at either Anoka or St. Peter is a lot higher than 1:30.... more like 1:5-6, with 24-7 nursing presence and psychiatrist 24 hour coverage. Hospital level care and group home level care are no where near similar.

[TTS]

This article addresses some of these issues.

A second explanation is the deinstitutionalization of the violently mentally ill. A 2000 New York Times study of 100 rampage murderers found that 47 were mentally ill. In the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry Law (2008), Jason C. Matejkowski and his co-authors reported that 16% of state prisoners who had perpetrated murders were mentally ill.

In the mid-1960s, many of the killings would have been prevented because the severely mentally ill would have been confined and cared for in a state institution. But today, while government at most every level has bloated over the past half-century, mental-health treatment has been decimated. According to a study released in July by the Treatment Advocacy Center, the number of state hospital beds in America per capita has plummeted to 1850 levels, or 14.1 beds per 100,000 people.

Moreover, a 2011 paper by Steven P. Segal at the University of California, Berkeley, "Civil Commitment Law, Mental Health Services, and U.S. Homicide Rates," found that a third of the state-to-state variation in homicide rates was attributable to the strength or weakness of involuntary civil-commitment laws.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323723104578185271857424036.html