The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

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The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby xd9 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:54 pm

I find it interesting that the Chicago Tribune's story title for this was "President Obama's statement on Trayvon Martin case".
And all along I thought this was Zimmerman's case. Kind of strange when you think about compared to all the other high profile cases of recent.
For example:
OJ case
Oscar Pistorius case
Jodi Arias case
Casey Anthony case
none of them know by the name of the victims of such cases.

So the Chicago Tribune sees fit to call it the Traynon Martin case. Odd

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-florida-shooting-statement-20130714,0,2863053.story

The the President's comments:
The death of Trayvon Martin was a tragedy. Not just for his family, or for any one community, but for America. I know this case has elicited strong passions. And in the wake of the verdict, I know those passions may be running even higher. But we are a nation of laws, and a jury has spoken. I now ask every American to respect the call for calm reflection from two parents who lost their young son. And as we do, we should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to widen the circle of compassion and understanding in our own communities. We should ask ourselves if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis. We should ask ourselves, as individuals and as a society, how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin.


To that, I wonder what about this case causes him to suggest "if we're doing all we can to stem the tide of gun violence that claims too many lives across this country on a daily basis.". This case was not about gun violence. It was about a lawful man defending his life. It just happened to be with his firearm. Not the same as gun violence we all know he should be talking about say in Chicago. To even tie these to things together is just insincere to say the least.

Also, "how we can prevent future tragedies like this. As citizens, that's a job for all of us. That's the way to honor Trayvon Martin".
Ok, how to prevent this? How about we don't have thugs attacking people in a violent assault? Also, why would we need to honor the assaulter in this case? It was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor in this case and as such lost his life doing something he should not have done.

It's odd how some can't see the forest through the trees. Chicago is the place the President should be spending most of his time trying to get straightened out. It's America's killing fields in parts of that city. And yet he is more focused on so many other less important things.

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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby gunsmith on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:07 pm

+999999999999999999999999
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby LarryFlew on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:49 pm

.......and the jury has spoken. Now lets get back to gun control and honoring the criminal..... ???
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby whiteox on Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:53 pm

xd9 wrote:It was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor in this case and as such lost his life doing something he should not have done.


Not exactly. The state couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was the aggressor. It's not a zero-sum game. The fact that the state couldn't prove Zimmerman was the aggressor doesn't mean Martin was, it just means they couldn't Zimmerman was. It is still completely possible that Zimmerman started the whole thing. I don't believe that's likely, but I also don't have any evidence to back that up, it's just my gut instinct. The product of my biases.

Nonetheless, I share your sentiment that we shouldn't be honoring Trayvon Martin. Or George Zimmerman. Neither Martin or Zimmerman's conduct was the product of any idealogical motivation. Martin was not a civil rights activist. He was either innocently walking home or casing homes to rob while planning to go home and make a homemade codeine cocktail. Regardless of which of those it was, his death doesn't warrant any particular honor. He is not a stand in for Emmett Till. Not even close.

Likewise, Zimmerman was either some vigilante cop wannabe or a mild-mannered guy concerned about his neighborhood. He was not trying to make some big stand for carry rights or stand-your-ground or anything else, he was trying to make sure his neighbor's house didn't get broken into. He isn't a hero or a role model or anything else. He's a guy who inserted himself into a situation where he ended up using deadly force, when logic should have told him that where he was headed was probably not going to end well. He has reaped the unfortunate consequences of that decision.

Both people that night were brought there by a series of poor decisions. The only two people in the world who know what really happened are Martin and Zimmerman. One's dead and the other has a strong interest in crafting a story that kept him out of jail. (doesn't mean it isn't a true story). None of us will ever know exactly what happened that night. The best we can do is learn from their actions so we don't find ourselves similarly situated.

It seems to me folks on both sides of this issue would be well-advised to turn down the rhetoric. None of it fits this case.
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby xd9 on Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:41 pm

whiteox wrote:The state couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was the aggressor. It's not a zero-sum game.


Fair enough. I agree Zimmerman did exhibit poor judgment. Should have stayed in his truck and been a good witness given the fact he thought the other person was possibly up to no good. Once he called the police to report a suspicious person, its not like Zimmerman stepped out in the rain for a nice stroll around his neighborhood. He put himself in a poor position after that.
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby Heffay on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:06 am

whiteox wrote:
xd9 wrote:It was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Trayvon Martin was the aggressor in this case and as such lost his life doing something he should not have done.


Not exactly. The state couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was the aggressor. It's not a zero-sum game. The fact that the state couldn't prove Zimmerman was the aggressor doesn't mean Martin was, it just means they couldn't Zimmerman was. It is still completely possible that Zimmerman started the whole thing. I don't believe that's likely, but I also don't have any evidence to back that up, it's just my gut instinct. The product of my biases.

Nonetheless, I share your sentiment that we shouldn't be honoring Trayvon Martin. Or George Zimmerman. Neither Martin or Zimmerman's conduct was the product of any idealogical motivation. Martin was not a civil rights activist. He was either innocently walking home or casing homes to rob while planning to go home and make a homemade codeine cocktail. Regardless of which of those it was, his death doesn't warrant any particular honor. He is not a stand in for Emmett Till. Not even close.

Likewise, Zimmerman was either some vigilante cop wannabe or a mild-mannered guy concerned about his neighborhood. He was not trying to make some big stand for carry rights or stand-your-ground or anything else, he was trying to make sure his neighbor's house didn't get broken into. He isn't a hero or a role model or anything else. He's a guy who inserted himself into a situation where he ended up using deadly force, when logic should have told him that where he was headed was probably not going to end well. He has reaped the unfortunate consequences of that decision.

Both people that night were brought there by a series of poor decisions. The only two people in the world who know what really happened are Martin and Zimmerman. One's dead and the other has a strong interest in crafting a story that kept him out of jail. (doesn't mean it isn't a true story). None of us will ever know exactly what happened that night. The best we can do is learn from their actions so we don't find ourselves similarly situated.

It seems to me folks on both sides of this issue would be well-advised to turn down the rhetoric. None of it fits this case.


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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:10 am

I think when the President made his statements, he really made it all about rhetoric.

Some people just never learned when to shut up. Is Obama on MNguntalk? Coulda swore he must be the way he carries on.
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby rugersol on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:35 am

whiteox wrote:The fact that the state couldn't prove Zimmerman was the aggressor doesn't mean Martin was

IIRC, Zimmerman sustained injuries consistent with gettin his head beat in?!

... moreover, I suspect, if there were any indications Trayvon sustained any injuries, other than a single gunshot, they would've been presented in the trial ... at which, it seems abundantly clear, he sustained no such injury!

So, either ...

• Zimmerman drew first, and Trayvon attacked him anyhow ... managing to beat his head in, a bit ... before Zimmerman, gun already drawn, shot him

• Zimmerman simply shot Trayvon, and somehow inflicted the injuries upon hisself (witnesses to the contrary, not withstanding)

• Trayvon initiated the physical violence ... at which, Zimmerman shot him

Now ... which of those is "reasonable"?!


Ya know ... what really surprises me?! ... they say this was a "gated" community?! ... I don't know much bout "gated" communities ... but, based on North Oaks, I suspect, less ya live there, ya can't simply drive er stroll through ... for any reason?! I suspect, if I was cruisin around North Oaks, some rent-a-cop'd probly ... eventually ... pull me over, n ask WTF I think I'm doin there ... at which, if I proceed to beat his head in, I'm probly gonna end up in a bad way ... one way, er the other?!

So ... did Trayvon live in this community?! ... er not?!

If he didn't, I'd suggest, simply by trespassing, he was the aggressor!

... or, was Zimmerman patrolling outside the "gate"?!
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby Heffay on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:50 am

rugersol wrote:So, either ...

• Zimmerman drew first, and Trayvon attacked him anyhow ... managing to beat his head in, a bit ... before Zimmerman, gun already drawn, shot him

• Zimmerman simply shot Trayvon, and somehow inflicted the injuries upon hisself (witnesses to the contrary, not withstanding)

• Trayvon initiated the physical violence ... at which, Zimmerman shot him



There are other options. Such as them taking swings at each other, Trayvon getting the upper hand and Zimmerman drawing/shooting his way out of it.


So ... did Trayvon live in this community?! ... er not?!

If he didn't, I'd suggest, simply by trespassing, he was the aggressor!


You can be an invited guest and not be considered a trespasser. It's not like he wasn't supposed to be there.
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby photogpat on Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:56 am

It IS disappointing that Obama uses an example of adjudicated, legal self-defense with a firearm to further an anti-gun violence agenda.
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby Holland&Holland on Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:05 am

photogpat wrote:It IS disappointing that Obama uses an example of adjudicated, legal self-defense with a firearm to further an anti-gun violence agenda.


There is a pattern.

If it involves a gun, then it is evil and must be banned.
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Re: The President's statement regarding the Zimmerman verdict

Postby rugersol on Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:23 am

I thought ABC's headline was interesting ...

ABC wrote:Obama on Zimmerman Verdict: ‘Jury Has Spoken,’ Calls for ‘Calm Reflection’


ABC did not wrote:Obama on Zimmerman Verdict: ‘Are We Doing All We Can To End Gun Violence?’


or

ABC did not wrote:Obama on Zimmerman Verdict: 'That’s the way to honor Trayvon Martin'
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