MN Capitol Security Panel Seeking New Policy?

[DanM]

Just saw this in the Star & Sickle -

An advisory committee on Minnesota Capitol security is preparing recommendations that could include a new notification process for handgun permit holders who want to bring firearms into the building.

Someone seems to think that the current notification system is not working. There will be a hearing November 25 to discuss the issue.

link: http://www.startribune.com/politics/statelocal/230715561.html

[xd ED]

MPR's website sheds a bit of light on this:

Minn. Capitol security panel revisits gun issue


St.. Paul, Minn. — The issue of guns inside the Minnesota Capitol continues to divide a panel looking at public safety improvements.

The latest disagreement came today when the Advisory Committee on Capitol Area Security discussed tighter rules for people who carry their firearms inside the building.

Currently, a permit holder must make a onetime notification of intent to carry to the Department of Public Safety.

State Rep. Michael Paymar, DFL-St. Paul, said more frequent notifications are needed.

"We handle some very volatile issues here, not just in this Capitol but other state buildings, Paymar said. "To not look at these issues is just an abdication of our responsibility, not just this task force but as members of the Legislature."

State Sen. Bill Ingebrigtsen, R-Alexandria, said permitted gun owners have not caused any problems at the Capitol, and stricter rules would raise constitutional issues.

"The bad guy and the bad girl are not going to abide by that. So once again, we're going to hinder the ones that are doing it right, and that's what we've got to be careful of constitutionally," Ingebrigtsen said.

MPR

I thought I smelt a paymar...

[dcam]

From KSTP
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S3210080.shtml?cat=1

"The Department of Public Safety has received verbal or written notice from more than 800 people about carrying a gun. But the agency doesn't always verify if a person has a valid gun permit."

And why would they, or why should they? If a person doesn't have a valid permit, the notification doesn't matter, or make it legal. There seems to be a worry that someone could write a notification letter, and then legally carry without having a valid permit.
Good grief, just let the Capitol security/police take care of the valid permit checking and enforcement, not the letter filers.

[Mn01r6]

Someone needs to write an OP ED about this nonsense in the local rags. VERIFICATION IS DONE AT THE TIME OF ENCOUNTER WITH CAPITOL SECURITY. I am sure guns have been carried without notification, just as I am sure guns have been carried without a permit to carry. Some people don't respect the rule of law, and they are called criminals. Others respect the law and obey it to the letter, and they shouldn't be punished because of an imagined shortcoming to this well functioning system.

[xd ED]

While this issue currently focuses on the Capitol Building proper, the notification law applies to the MN State Capitol Complex- a large area north of DnTn St Paul, containing many state buildings, and as I understand it, outdoor areas, memorials, etc.

This more casual drawing only generaly locates the affected area:




Below is an official map of the area of concern requiring notification to carry at the St Capitol grounds:




The text of the legal description of the above map:

15B.02 BOUNDARY OF CAPITOL AREA.
(a) The Capitol Area is that part of the city of St. Paul inside the boundary described in paragraph (b).
(b)(1) Beginning at the point of intersection of the center line of Pennsylvania Avenue and the center line of Marion Street;
(2) then go southerly along the center line of Marion Street and its extension to a point 50 feet southerly of the south curb of Concordia Avenue;
(3) then, southeasterly along a line 50 feet southerly of, and parallel with, the south curb of Concordia Avenue to a point 125 feet westerly of the west curb of southbound John Ireland Boulevard;
(4) then, southwesterly along a line 125 feet westerly of, and parallel with, the west curb of southbound John Ireland Boulevard to the south curb of Dayton Avenue;
(5) then, easterly along the south curb of Dayton Avenue to the west curb of southbound John Ireland Boulevard;
(6) then, northeasterly in a straight line to the intersection of the center line of Old Kellogg Boulevard and the center line of Summit Avenue;
(7) then, northeasterly along the center line of Summit Avenue to the center line of eastbound new West Kellogg Boulevard;
(8) then, southeasterly along the center line of eastbound and then, southbound new West Kellogg Boulevard to the easterly right-of-way line of Interstate Highway 35-E;
(9) then, northeasterly along the easterly right-of-way line of Interstate Highway 35-E to the southerly right-of-way line of Interstate Highway 94;
(10) then, easterly along the southerly right-of-way line of Interstate Highway 94 to the west curb of St. Peter Street;
(11) then, southeasterly along the west curb of St. Peter Street to the south curb of Exchange Street;
(12) then, northeasterly along the south curb of Exchange Street to the west curb of Cedar Street;
(13) then, northwesterly along the west curb of Cedar Street to the center line of Tenth Street;
(14) then, northeasterly along the center line of Tenth Street to the center line of Minnesota Street;
(15) then, northwesterly along the center line of Minnesota Street to the center line of Eleventh Street;
(16) then, northeasterly along the center line of Eleventh Street to the center line of Jackson Street;
(17) then, northerly along the center line of Jackson Street to the center line of Pennsylvania Avenue;
(18) then, westerly along the center line of Pennsylvania Avenue and its extension to the point of beginning.

[photogpat]

If you watch the replay -- watch Paymar become increasingly apoplectic...hell, the guy just about goes into a fit...when the committee won't enact an outright gun ban inside the capitol. He even brings in the "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN" line.

[Thunder71]

I for one don't want to set an expectation that it's OK to ban certain places because of someone's feelings... What's next, sidewalks? Parks?

As far as 'think of the children', remind him they bussed in how many children as a shrine for their anti rights bill, knowing full well there were many people carrying, he must not really be that concerned after all, huh?

[xd ED]

I for one don't want to set an expectation that it's OK to ban certain places because of someone's feelings... What's next, sidewalks? Parks?

As far as 'think of the children', remind him they bussed in how many children as a shrine for their anti rights bill, knowing full well there were many people carrying, he must not really be that concerned after all, huh?

It's not what's next- it's what's now. I don't believe one can cross the Capitol approach armed, without following the notification procedure. Also, how they manage to include private property in this area is beyond me,

[Thunder71]

We agree, maybe I just didn't write it correctly. I don't want a change now, they won't stop there - and I don't want to find out what they'd go after next.

[jshuberg]

The Capitol complex is my house. I pay for it with my tax dollars. To presume to tell me that I cannot exercise my constitutionally protected fundamental humans rights in a place that I help fund should be a crime. The same should be true for any taxpayer funded building, property, or facility. We the people pay for it, we the people should not be prevented from exercising out rights there. This includes sports stadiums, conventions centers, anyplace my tax dollars are used to fund. Don't like it, don't use the monies you take from me to fund a place where you want to deny me my rights.

People seem to forget that we tell the government what our rights are, not the other way around. Even after thousands of people showed up at the capitol with our metaphorical torches and pitchforks, these greased weasels don't seem to get the message. We need to do everything possible to oust Paymar and send him back to the sewer he crawled out of.

[ex-LT]

People seem to forget that we tell the government what our rights are, not the other way around. Even after thousands of people showed up at the capitol with our metaphorical torches and pitchforks, these greased weasels don't seem to get the message. We need to do everything possible to oust Paymar and send him back to the sewer he crawled out of.

I agree with everything you said up to the point of ousting Paymar. If I thought it would do a d@mn bit of good, I would donate $1000 to the campaign of whoever runs against him. Hell, if I had $1,000,000 to piss away, I'd donate it to his opponent. Unfortunately, his district (64B) is probably one of the most left leaning in the state, so you'd still end up with the same result - Rep. Paymar re-elected to his 10th term.

I've said it before, and I'll say it to my dying day; the most effective way to neutralize Rep. Paymar is to make him a member of the minority party, and THAT means electing a Republican majority.

[jshuberg]

You forget that not all democrats are anti-gun. It's not unreasonable for there to be a challenge from another DFL candidate, one who speaks better to the issues in his district, but who isn't an anti-gun cultist.

[Mn01r6]

While this issue currently focuses on the Capitol Building proper, the notification law applies to the MN State Capitol Complex- a large area north of DnTn St Paul, containing many state buildings, and as I understand it, outdoor areas, memorials, etc.

You are only prohibited from carrying inside state buildings in the capitol complex unless you have your permit and notified the commish. You can carry outside (on the capitol steps) without notification.

[photogpat]

You forget that not all democrats are anti-gun. It's not unreasonable for there to be a challenge from another DFL candidate, one who speaks better to the issues in his district, but who isn't an anti-gun cultist.

Case in point - I typically vote democratic...but become rabidly polarized on the gun issue (among a few others going the other direction).

[bstrawse]

The Capitol complex is my house. I pay for it with my tax dollars. To presume to tell me that I cannot exercise my constitutionally protected fundamental humans rights in a place that I help fund should be a crime. The same should be true for any taxpayer funded building, property, or facility. We the people pay for it, we the people should not be prevented from exercising out rights there. This includes sports stadiums, conventions centers, anyplace my tax dollars are used to fund. Don't like it, don't use the monies you take from me to fund a place where you want to deny me my rights.

People seem to forget that we tell the government what our rights are, not the other way around. Even after thousands of people showed up at the capitol with our metaphorical torches and pitchforks, these greased weasels don't seem to get the message. We need to do everything possible to oust Paymar and send him back to the sewer he crawled out of.

^^ Exactly.
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