BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

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BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby gunsmith on Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:18 pm



Don't know what to think of this....on one hand you would want it to blow up into a collossal embarassment for Barak Hussein & Eric Holder.

On the other hand these are just regular people people who want to live in peace.

Putin has de-pants-ed Barak globally....it would be nice to have this event reveal Obama as an ass-wipe on a Domestic Constitutional level.

If the Govt is smart they'll diffuse this and back away...if not we may regrettably see dead bodies on both sides of the conflict.

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http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10 ... ada-ranch/

LAS VEGAS (CBS Las Vegas/AP) — Militia groups are rallying behind a rancher whose cattle are being seized by the federal government.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reports that two militia members from Montana and one from Utah have arrived at Cliven Bundy’s ranch.

“We need to be the barrier between the oppressed and the tyrants,” Ryan Payne of the West Mountain Rangers told the Review-Journal. “Expect to see a band of soldiers.”

Payne said that militias from New Hampshire, Texas and Florida are likely to join and stand with Bundy and stay at his ranch.

“They all tell me they are in the process of mobilizing as we speak,” Payne told the Review-Journal, adding that hundreds of militia members are expected.

The Review-Journal also reports that Bundy’s son, Ammon Bundy, was shot with a stun gun by law enforcement officers Wednesday and that the rancher’s sister, Margaret Houston, was pushed to the ground.

“I pulled the tasers out of him,” Cheryl Teerlink told the Review-Journal.

Lawmakers are adding their voices into the fray, criticizing the federal cattle roundup fought by Cliven Bundy who claims longstanding grazing rights on remote public rangeland about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas.

Sen. Dean Heller of Nevada said he told new U.S. Bureau of Land Management chief Neil Kornze in Washington, D.C., that law-abiding Nevadans shouldn’t be penalized by an “overreaching” agency.

Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval pointed earlier to what he called “an atmosphere of intimidation,” resulting from the roundup and said he believed constitutional rights were being trampled.

Heller said he heard from local officials, residents and the Nevada Cattlemen’s Association and remained “extremely concerned about the size of this closure and disruptions with access to roads, water and electrical infrastructure.”

The federal government has shut down a scenic but windswept area about half the size of the state of Delaware to round up about 900 cattle it says are trespassing.

BLM and National Park Service officials didn’t immediately respond Wednesday to criticisms of the roundup that started Saturday and prompted the closure of the 1,200-square-mile area through May 12.

It’s seen by some as the latest battle over state and federal land rights in a state with deep roots in those disputes, including the Sagebrush Rebellion of the 1970s and ’80s. Nevada, where various federal agencies manage or control more than 80 percent of the land, is among several Western states where ranchers have challenged federal land ownership.

The current showdown pits Bundy’s claims of ancestral rights to graze his cows on open range against federal claims that the cattle are trespassing on arid and fragile habitat of the endangered desert tortoise. Bundy has said he owns about 500 branded cattle on the range and claims the other 400 targeted for roundup are his, too.

BLM and Park Service officials see threats in Bundy’s promise to “do whatever it takes” to protect his property and in his characterization that the dispute constitutes a “range war.”

U.S. Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Las Vegas, noted that BLM officials were enforcing federal court orders that Bundy remove his animals. The legal battle has been waged for decades.

Kornze, the new BLM chief, is familiar with the area. He’s a natural resource manager who grew up in Elko, Nev., and served previously as a senior adviser to Senate Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid.

Reid aide Kristen Orthman said her boss “hopes the trespassing cattle are rounded up safely so the issue can be resolved.”

Sandoval, a former state attorney general and federal district court judge, weighed in late Tuesday after several days of media coverage about blocked roads and armed federal agents fanning out around Bundy’s ranch while contractors using helicopters and vehicles herd cows into portable pens in rugged and remote areas.

“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” the governor said in a statement.

Sandoval said he was most offended that armed federal officials have tried to corral people protesting the roundup into a fenced-in “First Amendment area” south of the resort city of Mesquite.

The site “tramples upon Nevadans’ fundamental rights under the U.S. Constitution” and should be dismantled, Sandoval said.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby gunsmith on Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:24 pm

Of course this is a battle that is lost before it begins.....

The only place the Bundy's can win is on your screen, TV, Computer, Cell phone.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby cmxterra on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:46 pm

Because if they can't win with the box there.. then there is only one box left. And we all know the gooberment will be happy to use that box.
Let them hate so long as they fear.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby jgalt on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:59 pm

gunsmith wrote:If the Govt is smart...


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

oooo, that was a good one - tell us another... :lol:
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby palindrome on Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:11 pm

There are more facts to this.
The land his cattle are on is owned by the Federal government. Has has refused to pay a grazing fee for the cattle for over 20 years. He has lost several court battles arguing this.
So he is not as innocent as others make him out to be.

Here is what the Bureau of Land Management has to say about it.
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/more/trespass_cattle/public_notices_and.html

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/cattle_trespass.Par.0116.File.dat/Dkt%2035%20Order%20Granting%20MSJ%207-9-13.pdf

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/cattle_trespass.Par.40211.File.dat/Dkt%2056%20Order%20Granting%20Motion%20to%20Enforce%2010-9-13.pdf
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby smurfman on Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:12 pm

As much as I would like to sympathize with the rancher, I just can't. He has failed to pay grazing fees for at least 20 years and has run up a bill of over one million dollars. This issue is not one over a desert tortise but one of non-payment for use.

If he would have paid his fees this issue would not have taken place. My gripe is that the Feds allowed this behavior to go for so long before taking action. They should have taken action after only a couple of no payments as any other property owner would have done.

That this rancher and his family have been using open range for over a century has little to do with it, they still didn't own the land. I may rent an apartment for decades but that does not give me ownership of that residence. Maybe a false sense of entitlement but still no ownership. If he does not like the law requiring him to pay fees (rent) to use public land then he should have gotten the law changed. Until then, he still has to abide by the current law or face the consequences.

This rancher does not have a leg to stand on in my book. He is attempting to use emotion to end up with his desired outcome no matter what the law or reality says. I am not a fan of those kinds of tactics and they are reprehensible no matter which side uses them.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby Stylin750 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:36 pm

I don't care who is in the wrong or the right. This is blatant misuse of power. Come on 1st amendment boxes and a trampling of the constition. You know their once was a time when working was a good thing. Well obummadingdong did say he wanted to be Lincoln. He might just get his way and start another civil war. But it'd be more like a revolutionary war at this point. He is doing great At unifying the people. We all hate him
Give me liberty or give me death... Those willing to give up liberty for safety deserve neither...
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby Randygmn on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:59 pm

palindrome wrote:There are more facts to this.
The land his cattle are on is owned by the Federal government. Has has refused to pay a grazing fee for the cattle for over 20 years. He has lost several court battles arguing this.
So he is not as innocent as others make him out to be.

Here is what the Bureau of Land Management has to say about it.
http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/lvfo/blm_programs/more/trespass_cattle/public_notices_and.html

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/cattle_trespass.Par.0116.File.dat/Dkt%2035%20Order%20Granting%20MSJ%207-9-13.pdf

http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/nv/field_offices/las_vegas_field_office/cattle_trespass.Par.40211.File.dat/Dkt%2056%20Order%20Granting%20Motion%20to%20Enforce%2010-9-13.pdf


And there's even more to this story;
Who says the Feds own this land, the Feds?

Go to oathkeepers.org for the full story.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby palindrome on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:22 am

Randygmn wrote:
And there's even more to this story;
Who says the Feds own this land, the Feds?

Go to oathkeepers.org for the full story.


The government wouldn't have a case if Bundy had a deed to the land. Has he been paying property taxes on this land that he owns?

The US got the land as a result of the Mexican-American War. Please show me where this land was given or purchased privately from the US or Mexico?
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby captnviper on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:49 am

Having read both sides.
“To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”
― Thomas Jefferson
To force a man to pay for the violation of his own liberty is indeed an addition of insult to injury. ~Benjamin Tucker,
“There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.”
― Robert A. Heinlein
The BLM is over regulated and full of sheet.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby Mn01r6 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:08 am

Be that as it may, this ain't the hill to die on. He has enjoyed free use of government land for 20+ years...it is no different than giving a subsidy to any other business. It should survive or fail based on market forces and while paying fair market value for the assets necessary for it to conduct business.
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby captnviper on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:54 am

Feds owning land?
The foundation of socialism is the idea that government should own the sources of production and distribute its benefits “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”
I'm sure the fed's will manage the property they own judiciously and efficiently.
Congress may exercise exclusive legislative "authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;"
Here's how the BLM grabs land in texas. http://misguidedchildren.com/domestic-a ... land/18596
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby captnviper on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:59 am

image fed owned land
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby george on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:23 am

According to some of the news, this land was acquired by the government threw eminent domain and now has
land ownership of 80% in the state, wonder where it ends, Minnesota maybe, New York ????
Some interviewed on the news claimed this is the root of the problem.
"If the personal freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution inhibit the government's ability to govern the people, we should look to limit those guarantees."
-- President Bill Clinton, August 12, 1993
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Re: BLM stand-off in Nevada...close to 'war' or 'Range War'

Postby captnviper on Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:26 am

"The Constitution provides for limited federal lands within each state, originally assumed to be about 1 to 2%, to be purchased for post roads, forts, arsenals, etc. How is it, then, that the federal government owns 62% of Alaska and 47% of 11 border-sharing Western states, including Utah? (Just a hint: vast oil and mineral reserves exactly underlie confiscated lands.) Federal land theft is a polished art, with federal ownership at 635 million acres, or 28% of available US land, most of it in the West, according to the Congressional Research Service."
http://www.heraldextra.com/news/opinion ... 776a5.html
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