Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Thunder71 on Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:16 am

bensdad wrote:Is it not fair to say that this ruling allows carry by all legal handgun owners until DC writes and passes some sort of permit law?


You don't have to have laws to tell you want you CAN do, only what you cannot.

In other words, until it's illegal, it's legal.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby jshuberg on Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:22 am

Keep in mind that this ruling relied very heavily on Peruta v. San Diego County. In this ruling, a may issue permitting system existed where law abiding gun owners were routinely being denied permits. The 9th circuit ruled that because the 2nd Amendment guaranteed the right to both keep and bear arms, that a may issue permitting system where law abiding gun owners are denied permits was unconstitutional. It's on appeal The CA attorney general has requested that the full 9th circuit court re-hear the case en-banc on its own initiative, but it is not an appeal as the state of CA was not a formal party in the case. The 9th circuit has not yet decided whether they will re-hear the case, or simply stick with the ruling by the original 3 judge panel. The County of San Diego has decided *not* to appeal the case, so unless the 9th decides to start all over again and re-hear the case, the Peruta ruling will stand.

One of the most compelling arguments they made was that because the Heller ruling established the right of an individual to own firearms was a pre-existing right, that any precedent set by any court that had previously disagreed with the individual right was in err, and no longer valid case law. Every court ruling since Heller that states that the right to carry a firearm outside the home is *not* protected by the 2nd Amendment does so by citing precedent that the 9th circuit claims are no longer valid as of Heller. If the San Diego case ever gets to the Supreme Court, they will basically have to rule on whether their previous Heller decision says what it says, that the right to own a firearm is an individual right that has always been protected by the 2nd Amendment. If it is, then any lower court decision that disagreed with this was wrong, and no longer valid case law. This would nullify all rulings to date that claim the right to carry a firearm outside the home is not protected by the 2nd Amendment, and establish case law that it is in fact protected, which would result in the entire US becoming shall issue.

Because the DC ruling agreed with and relied heavily on the San Diego ruling, the DC court effectively agreed that a shall issue permitting system is the only constitutional permitting system. The recognition of the right to carry as a fundamental right also protects it against tyrannical fees or bureaucratic processes intended to infringe the right. While it's possible that DC could try to implement a permitting system that doesn't comply with this and other rulings, it's unlikely since they would most certainly lose any subsequent lawsuit, and they know it. Note that Illinois implemented a shall issue system under a similar ruling, although it's implementation and costs are more burdensome than most states. I would expect DC to implement a permitting system similar to what the state of Illinois has.

So far these cases have been unfolding very nicely. Gura is really a fantastic advocate for us in the courts!!!
Last edited by jshuberg on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby xd ED on Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:23 am

Randygmn wrote:
bensdad wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:I'm not sure why some of you are getting your panties in a wad over this. As best as I can tell, this is a very minor victory. This ruling does not prohibit the district's onerous registration system, only that they can't prohibit non-residents from it. It also doesn't require the district to adopt "Constitutional Carry", only that they can't have an outright ban. There's nothing in this ruling which says they can't adopt a permitting system as bad or complicated as their registration system.


Is it not fair to say that this ruling allows carry by all legal handgun owners until DC writes and passes some sort of permit law?


No. Anyone can legally carry in DC. They will also honor every out of state carry permit. This will be in effect UNTIL DC creates its own permit structure.

I wonder how the secret service feel about this, lol.


Re the SS/ obama's safety in Washington- I'm guessing the *resident spends less time exposed to the threat of handguns in DC than anywhere else he might be found. he's typically either in the White House, the Rose Garden, or onboard Marine 1.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Ironbear on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:39 am

Virginia Gun Owners Forum suggests prudence....

http://vagunforum.net/general-discussion/vgof-official-statement-not-carry-gun-into-t22318.html
VGOF Official Statement: Do Not Carry a Gun Into DC Today

VGOF Official Statement: Do Not Carry a Gun Into DC
by allingeneral » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:04 am
There's a lot of discussion today concerning the Saturday ruling by a US District Court Judge regarding the nullification of a couple of Washington DC's gun restrictions. Several discussions have indicated that DC Police Chief Lanier sent out a memo to all DC police telling them not to arrest people from out of state who carry in DC (i.e. non-DC residents).

It is VGOF's official stance at this time that it WOULD NOT BE PRUDENT TO CARRY A FIREARM INTO WASHINGTON DC for several reasons.

1) There is still a lot of confusion related to this ruling, and unless you have wads of cash and a good lawyer to defend you, then it would be best to let things air out for awhile

2) DC still bans magazines over 10 rounds as well as certain types of ammunition. So, if you wander on into DC with your .40 caliber pistol loaded with 14 hollowpoints, you may very well find yourself in a a predicament very quickly.

3) The National Park police are in charge of the Mall and tons of other areas where federal jurisdiction allows for different penalties above and beyond any law that was passed by the DC City Council.

I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts, and possible reasons why to not just jump in the car and drive up to DC today with your sidearm.

IMHO... prudence is good...
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Ghost on Mon Jul 28, 2014 1:30 pm

xd ED wrote:Re the SS/ obama's safety in Washington- I'm guessing the *resident spends less time exposed to the threat of handguns in DC than anywhere else he might be found. he's typically either in the White House, the Rose Garden, or onboard Marine 1.


Or

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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Mon Jul 28, 2014 2:39 pm

I'd like to share jshuberg's enthusiasm about this ruling but I don't. I'm not versed in the intricacies of Peruta Vs San Diego but skimming through, it doesn't look to be the slam dunk it's made out to be. Second, the Heller decision left open the question of what a legitimate restriction to the Second Amendment is, as the 9th circuit quote below states.

PERUTA V. COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO wrote:We conclude by emphasizing, as nearly every authority on the Second Amendment has recognized, regulation of the right to bear arms is not only legitimate but quite appropriate. We repeat Heller’s admonition that “nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession”—or carriage—“of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.” Heller, 554 U.S. at 626–27. Nor should anything in this opinion be taken to cast doubt on the validity of measures designed to make the carrying of firearms for self-defense as safe as possible, both to the carrier and the community.


I'm still of the opinion that little will change within the District of Columbia, and that the legal battle is far from over.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby jgalt on Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:28 pm

There have been what used to be called "time and manner" restrictions on the carrying of various types of weapons (handguns, knives, etc.) on the books in various places since before the Constitution was written, so the statement in Heller re: longstanding restrictions & rules regarding the carrying of those weapons is dead on accurate.

That doesn't in any way mean that restrictions & rules are required in the future, or even that they ever made sense. It just means that any argument saying restrictions as such are somehow un-Constitutional is false...
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby gunsmith on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:20 pm

Good little clip

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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby gunsmith on Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:27 pm

Blogger / Reporter who carried today at National Mall in Wash DC.

He concealed.

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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Ghost on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:42 pm

I just read on AR15.COM that the motion to stay pending appeal has been granted. Stay out of DC with your carry piece.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:15 pm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/29/federal-judge-grants-90-day-stay-dc-gun-case/

ETA: and the blogger in the video posted above is an idiot who isn't smart enough to realize he probably broke federal law carrying on the mall.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby steve4102 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:29 pm

Rip Van Winkle wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/29/federal-judge-grants-90-day-stay-dc-gun-case/

ETA: and the blogger in the video posted above is an idiot who isn't smart enough to realize he probably broke federal law carrying on the mall.


How so, please explain.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Lumpy on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:41 pm

steve4102 wrote:
Rip Van Winkle wrote:http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jul/29/federal-judge-grants-90-day-stay-dc-gun-case/

ETA: and the blogger in the video posted above is an idiot who isn't smart enough to realize he probably broke federal law carrying on the mall.


How so, please explain.
There's the city of Washington, and then there's the Federal Government. Just as you can't carry in post offices or other federal buildings in your home state, much of Washington is federal property and quite thoroughly banned.
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Re: Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby Rip Van Winkle on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:46 pm

To expand on Lumpy's explanation. There's areas in the district which fall under city jurisdiction and there's other parts, like the capital mall, which fall under Federal jurisdiction. Where you're standing at any given time will decide who's rules you will be subject to.
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Federal judge rules DC ban on handguns unconstitutional

Postby jshuberg on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:00 pm

I'm not familiar with the details of the federal areas in DC. Could someone provide a link to the statute banning firearms on the mall? It was my understanding that the prohibition on the carrying of firearms was only within federal buildings.

Or is it that people are just guessing what the law might be without any actual knowledge of what they're talking about?
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