off topic send money to the good folks at "Memories Pizza"

[patrick]

I'm sure you've all seen this on the news.This kind of persecution can not be tolerated.Gofundme.com.Support people that stand up for their rights just like we do!

[45Badger]

Uh, nope. Not gonna consciously send or spend my pennies with bigots.

As for the dimwits at the pizza joint, let the market take care of it. If you support them, buy a pizza. If you support their views and love their pizza, buy another. If you don't, don't buy a pizza. Odds are their pizza sucks

[xd ED]

Uh, nope. Not gonna consciously send or spend my pennies with bigots.

As for the dimwits at the pizza joint, let the market take care of it. If you support them, buy a pizza. If you support their views and love their pizza, buy another. If you don't, don't buy a pizza. Odds are their pizza sucks

Who do you see as bigots here; the woman who was set up by, and misrepresented in, the media, or the throngs of cowardly online terrorists threatening her, her family, and their livelihood harm?

The trolling being done by the media and the gay rights radicals would make al sharptongue proud, and do their cause as much advancement as al and jesse have race relations.

[Erud]

Uh, nope. Not gonna consciously send or spend my pennies with bigots.

As for the dimwits at the pizza joint, let the market take care of it. If you support them, buy a pizza. If you support their views and love their pizza, buy another. If you don't, don't buy a pizza. Odds are their pizza sucks

They are bigots because their religious beliefs would prevent them from participating in a ceremony they find to be morally objectionable? Would you feel the same way about a gay-owned pizza place if they refused to cater a neo-nazi rally?

[45Badger]

Guys,

Religious beliefs are just that. Beliefs. The US Constitution protects our right to believe almost anything we want. It also specifically calls out and protects our right to keep and bear arms. It does not call out, specify or enumerate our right to act in any way we want. Refusing service/discriminating in a public business is an act/action that is not protected. Based on beliefs (religious and other) is it OK to refuse service to-

Black
Indians
Injuns
Latino
Short
Fat
Ugly
Crippled
Mentally challenged
Bald
Irish
Dwarfs
Catholics
Muslims (do we all appreciate their right to act in some of the more extreme views of their religion?????)
Members of this forum who are Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual or Transgender
Jews
Friends who are all or some of the above

I don't think so.

Rather than participate in an intellectual circle jerk, I suggest we post up our facts and personal actions on this specific issue. I think I have made mine clear. If not- here goes-

I have not and will not send a penny or buy a pizza in support of the religious/commercial/business decisions of the poor and misunderstood pizzeria owners in Indiana.

If you have sent money or bought a pie please have the courage of your convictions to post the specific action you have taken.

Happy Good Friday all!

[yuppiejr]

I choose not to support this business as I happen to agree with D on this issue... though I find the jackbooted thug "we'll ruin your life because we disagree with you" attacks on the owner and his family because of their political views highly disturbing.

[Squib Joe]

I think it is the right of a business owner to refuse service to anyone, but I really have to wonder why they feel it necessary to tell a patron WHY they don't want a particular job. A simple "no thanks" and this wouldn't be a national issue.

I'm all for free speech, but don't expect me to help you dig yourself out of the hole a lack of common sense has put you into

Also, what couple gay or straight would ever hire a pizza joint to cater a wedding? Really?

[mmcnx2]

This has been an very interesting and disappointing exchange in the media.

In this case they wave the rights of gays, while stomping on religious rights. But it is not so much about which side you are on but the fact they are arguing about which right supersedes the other. Let me make it perfectly clear I personally don't care if you are straight, gay or something else; if your are Catholic, Lutheran, Jewish, Muslim or something else; or if you are white, black or something else. Heck I'm a over 50 straight white male, married, 2 kids, have a college degree, work full time and own a home - which makes me one of the most discriminated against people on the planet. If you don't believe that watch a few TV commercials and see how they degrade that demographic.

I honestly don't see the issue. A person/business should have the right to sell to who they want. At the same time a person/business should have the right to buy from who they want. In the true since of free commerce if the seller and buyer can't come to a mutually acceptable agreement they sell/buy from someone else. Everyone wins. This whole crap about my rights are more important than your rights is BS.

A few years ago a restaurant tried to cater to adults only, by not allowing children under a certain age. People screamed discrimination; but as someone has left a number of restaurants due specifically to peoples screaming little brats, I thought it was an excellent business model. In the end the restaurant was forced to change their rules. Wouldn't have been better to let them be, and let the market decide.

In the end I believe the pizza joint owners are bigots and small minded(most religions, even within their specific belief system, urge tolerance), but the great part of America is they have the right to be.

[rottenit]

I think it is the right of a business owner to refuse service to anyone

This is the issue that I have been struggling with. Does a private business have the right to refuse service? Sure, they could have played it on the down-low and just said "sorry were not interested" and this would be a non-issue.

I didn't grow up during the original civil rights or woman's rights movement. I think that society has changed to now allow those types of issues to happen wide spread. ( its pretty easy to say now that market forces could take care of issues like this "there are plenty of business type x that will take your business instead" type scenarios. Would that be the case or the best way to deal with this?

I also find it hard to make another example does a Christian have the right to refuse service to a Muslim or vice versa? These are more extreme but what about that bakery that refused to make a swastika cake? If I walked into a Jewish bakery and asked them to make a swastika shaped Challa could they refuse? Or how about an x rated cake? Can someone found a religion that hates "the blacks" then refuse service to "the blacks" on religious grounds?

My homosexual friend strongly believes that there is a small percentage of his community that really enjoys trying to shove down the throat of others the fact that they are gay just for the fun, shock or whatever of it. There are other businesses that will cater to people in most cases.

I'm not an open-carrier but If I open carry into a business and the occupant owner of that business doesn't like guns they can refuse service to me. What if I walk into a Christian bookstore wearing a "I am the god of f***" T-shirt, or maybe just any business with a T that says "F*** YOU" in giant letters. Does that business have the right to refuse service?

What if I a Muslim store owner started to refuse service to "infidels" on religious grounds?

My gut says in cases like this that we should err on the side of freedom, so support the freedom of the store owners or the freedom of the LGBT community or both?

[Kelor]

Guys,

Religious beliefs are just that. Beliefs. The US Constitution protects our right to believe almost anything we want. It also specifically calls out and protects our right to keep and bear arms. It does not call out, specify or enumerate our right to act in any way we want. Refusing service/discriminating in a public business is an act/action that is not protected.........

Your understanding of the 1st amendment is much different than mine. And I think it's pretty damn clear.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Based on beliefs (religious and other) is it OK to refuse service to-

Black
Indians
Injuns
Latino
Short
Fat
Ugly
Crippled
Mentally challenged
Bald
Irish
Dwarfs
Catholics
Muslims (do we all appreciate their right to act in some of the more extreme views of their religion?????)
Members of this forum who are Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual or Transgender
Jews
Friends who are all or some of the above

I don't think so.

Lifestyle choices are not physical characteristics. Besides that, I think we can all agree to discriminate against the Irish.

I have no problem with your position of avoiding such businesses, and I expect all of us avoid certain businesses. For example, I refuse to buy mini donuts at the largest Minidonut booth at the fairgrounds because it is owned by the DNC. I try to avoid Walmart as I think big box stores are an eyesore. I go to Chik Filet because I think it's refreshing to have a retail business close on Sunday. Your logic on "rights", however, are way off.

Remember when the Gay marriage movement was about freedom? Your position on Government mandating of services from a private entity brings us right back to the Jim Crow laws.

[BigBlue]

Uh, nope. Not gonna consciously send or spend my pennies with bigots.

As for the dimwits at the pizza joint, let the market take care of it. If you support them, buy a pizza. If you support their views and love their pizza, buy another. If you don't, don't buy a pizza. Odds are their pizza sucks

They are bigots because their religious beliefs would prevent them from participating in a ceremony they find to be morally objectionable? Would you feel the same way about a gay-owned pizza place if they refused to cater a neo-nazi rally?

Or, along the same lines, a catering company owned by a black family that was asked to cater a Ku Klux Klan rally? You want the law to say that this catering owner is doing something illegal because they decline that business? This is America, people. We get to do what we want. You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you. But you don't get to tell me what I have to do, just like I don't get to tell you what you can do.

The sheer amount of effort being put forth these days to cram things that deviate from the historical norms and customs of this country down the throats of people is simply amazing. The US has gotten to the point where every possible type of lifestyle and behavior is allowed. But that's not enough anymore for the ones who live those lifestyles... now they must force everyone else to embrace them and champion them. That's wrong. I accept who you are and how you are, but I sure as hell am not going to cheer for you.

And by the way, Badger, your instant jump to calling names (bigot, dimwit) and denigrating the quality of this pizza place ("odds are their pizza sucks") really speaks volumes to your own openness and acceptance of others. You want those folks to accept everyone they don't like, but you act like that to someone you don't like? Classy. I guess that whole tolerance thing only works one direction.

BB

[Erud]

Guys,

Religious beliefs are just that. Beliefs. The US Constitution protects our right to believe almost anything we want. It also specifically calls out and protects our right to keep and bear arms. It does not call out, specify or enumerate our right to act in any way we want. Refusing service/discriminating in a public business is an act/action that is not protected. Based on beliefs (religious and other) is it OK to refuse service to-

Black
Indians
Injuns
Latino
Short
Fat
Ugly
Crippled
Mentally challenged
Bald
Irish
Dwarfs
Catholics
Muslims (do we all appreciate their right to act in some of the more extreme views of their religion?????)
Members of this forum who are Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual or Transgender
Jews
Friends who are all or some of the above

I don't think so.

Rather than participate in an intellectual circle jerk, I suggest we post up our facts and personal actions on this specific issue. I think I have made mine clear. If not- here goes-

I have not and will not send a penny or buy a pizza in support of the religious/commercial/business decisions of the poor and misunderstood pizzeria owners in Indiana.

If you have sent money or bought a pie please have the courage of your convictions to post the specific action you have taken.

Happy Good Friday all!

What is a "public business"?

[patrick]

I'm glad to see there are a lot of good people left in this country.Last I checked on gofundme.com they have received almost $500,000.It's just funny that the gays are so full of bigotry that they are treating people the way that they have been complaining about forever.Equality?Or superiority?Hmmmm.I'm going to send them a USPS money order because I'm not sure how much gofundme.com will skim off the top,if any.

We all have rights,not just those of us that bitch the loudest.

[patrick]

I just checked.$588,209.00.And counting...

[45Badger]

Your understanding of the 1st amendment is much different than mine. And I think it's pretty damn clear.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Nowhere in the Bible that I have read is there anything about refusing food/flower/photo services to those we think are sinners. As for First Amendment, we are all free to think and say what we want (except "fire" in crowded theater) and be free of Federal Gubmint interference/repression of those thoughts and expressions. That does not mean we will not be pilloried on the interwebs, TV or local newspaper for those thoughts, beliefs and expressions.

I go to Chik Filet because I think it's refreshing to have a retail business close on Sunday.

I really like their chicken and wish they were open on Sunday

What is a "public business"?

One that conducts business with the general public.

And by the way, Badger, your instant jump to calling names (bigot, dimwit) and denigrating the quality of this pizza place ("odds are their pizza sucks") really speaks volumes to your own openness and acceptance of others. You want those folks to accept everyone they don't like, but you act like that to someone you don't like? Classy. I guess that whole tolerance thing only works one direction.

BB

I'm slightly intolerant of intolerance Very intolerant of idiocy and acts of discrimination. Please read my posts more carefully- We are all free to think and believe what we want. It's the acting on those thoughts in a discriminatory manner that gets you on the wrong side of the law and on the stupid side of my ledger. I'm the Vice President (officer) of a sales for my company. Trust me, there are lots of folks/companies/employees/peers that I would really not like to deal with for any number of reasons. I'm very welcome to my opinions but have a legal and fiduciary responsibility to act in sane, fair, balanced and legal manner.

Yes, I think they fit the definition of bigot and they did not appear too awfully bright in their interviews and quotes. And being a New Yorker, there is no such thing as decent pizza (or bagels) east of Allentown, PA. Certainly not in Hoosierland

Like I said, no money from me. Ive yet to see anybody specify that their money is where their keyboard is................