Dead and wounded in Orlando

[Snakeman721]

I didn't see a specific thread to a question I have about the Orlando mess, so I'll post it here. There are 49 confirmed dead from this mess. The cops waited outside for about 2 hours before breaking through the walls to kill the bastard. Question....how many inocent lives were lost because the cops waited thinking they were negotiating with this POS? Question 2.....Did anyone see the video of when the cops rushed in, guns a blazing? Actually, more to the point, did anyone HEAR that video? I did...There were so mant gunshots that it sounded like one big long roar. Question 3....How many rounds were fired from the cops when they breached? 200? 400? And the BIG question that NO ONE in the media is asking....How many MORE inocent lives were taken by FRIENDLY fire in that barrage? Did anyone count the bullet holes in the jihadist? Subtract that from the rounds fired and then start to wonder where ALL THOSE OTHER rounds fired ended up?

[LePetomane]

What puzzles me is that some reported 49 dead and some reported 50 dead. Did those who reported 50 dead include the scumbag shooter?

[yukonjasper]

My understanding is that 50 includes the shooter.

[yukonjasper]

I didn't see a specific thread to a question I have about the Orlando mess, so I'll post it here. There are 49 confirmed dead from this mess. The cops waited outside for about 2 hours before breaking through the walls to kill the bastard. Question....how many inocent lives were lost because the cops waited thinking they were negotiating with this POS? Question 2.....Did anyone see the video of when the cops rushed in, guns a blazing? Actually, more to the point, did anyone HEAR that video? I did...There were so mant gunshots that it sounded like one big long roar. Question 3....How many rounds were fired from the cops when they breached? 200? 400? And the BIG question that NO ONE in the media is asking....How many MORE inocent lives were taken by FRIENDLY fire in that barrage? Did anyone count the bullet holes in the jihadist? Subtract that from the rounds fired and then start to wonder where ALL THOSE OTHER rounds fired ended up?

I'm not sure the math is that direct. As has been discussed on this board recently, proficiency with weapons is not always high with law enforcement.

[LePetomane]

That is what I thought. Some sources also included one of the Boston bombers among the casualties a few years ago. Anything the media can do to pad the numbers.

[sprigfan]

I also heard the reports that the police stood outside while the shooting was still going on. It sickens me.

If the shooting had stopped, then I understand it is likely a hostage situation, and they should hold off. Easy for me to say, but it's a cop's job to run into that d*** building, and try to end the killing. That is what they signed up to do when they took the job.

Again, if the reports are true, those officers should be ashamed of themselves. If a was an Orlando resident, I would demand the firing of those who utterly failed to do their jobs.

[xd ED]

From what I read, they waited to take the guy because they were gathering intelligence from people/ hostages inside, and there was a fear of IEDs, second shooters...they say they went when they did, before sunrise, while it was still dark.

ETA: all the cops on scene were taking orders from someone in command; it wasn't the individual initiative (or lack thereof) from 50+ independent officers.

[westhope]

If you believe that the "gun" is the cause for the killings, then then shooter is also a victim. If you believe that Islam is the cause for the killings, then the shooter is also a victim. If you believe the shooter is responsible for the killings, them the shooter is not a victim.

The number quoted, 49 or 50, would give an indication of the reporter's bias in the articles.

[sprigfan]

From what I read, they waited to take the guy because they were gathering intelligence from people/ hostages inside, and there was a fear of IEDs, second shooters...they say they went when they did, before sunrise, while it was still dark.

Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

[xd ED]

From what I read, they waited to take the guy because they were gathering intelligence from people/ hostages inside, and there was a fear of IEDs, second shooters...they say they went when they did, before sunrise, while it was still dark.

Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

Yeah, it's a damn shame you weren't there to fix things.

[yukonjasper]

I agree, lots of Monday morning quarterbacking going on what should have happened. The people on the ground made the decisions they did with the information they had available at the time. Pretty easy to be a keyboard Kommando or an Internet Ninja.

[Ghost]

From what I read, they waited to take the guy because they were gathering intelligence from people/ hostages inside, and there was a fear of IEDs, second shooters...they say they went when they did, before sunrise, while it was still dark.

Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

Police had no requirement to enter that building.

[yukonjasper]

I agree ^^^^. To Protect and Serve. Not throw yourself into harms way without thinking. There is a reason they have awards ceremonies for Officers and Firefighters who do heroic things - its not expected that they will literally lay down their lives for the public. If your expectation is that every Law Enforcement person you see is going to throw themselves in front of a bullet for you, you have another thing coming. Even in war, valor is celebrated because its not common to sacrifice yourself for others. Scary what thoughts people walk around with in their heads............

[2in2out]

From a firefighter's perspective, it's extremely important to go about emergency scenes in a coordinated manner and not rush into things. Rushing in without help, without backup and without coordinating with superiors is a good way to add to the victim count. We've had incidents where firefighters had to be physically restrained for their own safety.

Sacrificing yourself to potentially save another sounds like a noble pursuit until you think about how many lives you put at stake in search of glory.

So, I'm not ready to judge the tactics of the Blue Canaries. We give them a hard time when they want to be paramilitary and then we give them a hard time when they're not.

[sprigfan]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/13/di ... -time.html

https://www.google.com/amp/www.latimes. ... ,amp.html#