St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

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St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby INOR on Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:39 pm

Think it's right for the St Paul police union to be all up in this guy's ass over two guns stolen from his home, asking him to publicly declare where he got them, their serial numbers, and how he stored the guns and his ammo?

http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-poli ... 452889993/
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby Holland&Holland on Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:04 pm

INOR wrote:Think it's right for the St Paul police union to be all up in this guy's ass over two guns stolen from his home, asking him to publicly declare where he got them, their serial numbers, and how he stored the guns and his ammo?

http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-poli ... 452889993/

No but then again I do not support any unions actions.

Unions are as bad as politicians
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby Ghost on Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:25 pm

He should respond back that it’s nice of them to point out a few issues which pertain to why he’s running and issues where they are failing. He should have hopes of improving their shoddy police department and reforming them into something that actually prevents crimes instead of historians after the burglary and/or violence.

And his response on where they were stored should be in his house where they belong and thieves don’t.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby INOR on Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:34 pm

Yep. Total ******** political letter. It's his damn business where he got the guns and how he kept them in his house.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby BigDog58 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:35 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
INOR wrote:Think it's right for the St Paul police union to be all up in this guy's ass over two guns stolen from his home, asking him to publicly declare where he got them, their serial numbers, and how he stored the guns and his ammo?

http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-poli ... 452889993/

No but then again I do not support any unions actions.

Unions are as bad as politicians


Have you ever been a member of a Union? I find your statement overly broad.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby Holland&Holland on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:11 am

BigDog58 wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
INOR wrote:Think it's right for the St Paul police union to be all up in this guy's ass over two guns stolen from his home, asking him to publicly declare where he got them, their serial numbers, and how he stored the guns and his ammo?

http://www.startribune.com/st-paul-poli ... 452889993/

No but then again I do not support any unions actions.

Unions are as bad as politicians


Have you ever been a member of a Union? I find your statement overly broad.


Nope, I have negotiated with them in several roles throughout my career.

I have refused to join them and suffered the consequences of such.

They are the embodiment of group think and the liberal ideal.

How folks who claim conservative values can continue to be supportive of them in any capacity, astounds me.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby xd ED on Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:37 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
Nope, I have negotiated with them in several roles throughout my career.

I have refused to join them and suffered the consequences of such.

They are the embodiment of group think and the liberal ideal.

How folks who claim conservative values can continue to be supportive of them in any capacity, astounds me.


Collective bargaining is a function of a free market.

Not really different than if you and I go to a gun store to negotiate a better price on one quick sale of 2 guns vs 2 individual sales.

Public employee unions(which I was once one of) can present an entirely different kettle of fish.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby BigDog58 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:30 am

Nope, I have negotiated with them in several roles throughout my career.

I have refused to join them and suffered the consequences of such.

They are the embodiment of group think and the liberal ideal.

How folks who claim conservative values can continue to be supportive of them in any capacity, astounds me.


I was a representative and was part of the negotiations team on two contracts at NWA and prior to that, one contract at EAL. I knew going in, that my job was to get the best possible compensation package possible for the nearly 10,000 people I represented. I also understood not everything we wanted, was obtainable, nor was everything the Airline wanted. It took long hard discussions and some compromise from both sides.

I felt that the workers had the best chance of getting fair work rules and fair compensation, when we dealt as a bargaining unit, rather than on an individual basis. This view came after working at several non-union aircraft maintenance jobs. I saw the unjust way employees were treated, with zero consistency in those instances. I was even on a "grievance committee" at one of the non-union shops. I was part of the first employee rights policy that was instituted at that company. I am still in touch with several of those people, that I helped way back then (late 1970's thru early 80's).

I will never say unions are perfect. On occasion I had to fight my district officers as much, or more, when I was doing what was right (what the membership had told me they wanted) for my membership. But, I ALWAYS made certain that not only the company's lived within the contract, but my membership did as well.

I have never considered myself as a conservative nor a liberal. I have never claimed conservative values either. I have lobbied and campaigned in D.C. for workers rights, and fought to try and keep U.S. jobs here. I could go on for three or four pages but I believe I've stated my position. The last thing I'll say, is that on the day when I had to medically retire from NWA, due to a devastating injury I suffered at work, The CEO and the V.P. of Aircraft Maintenance came to the going away party my co-workers and union brother/sisters threw for me. Both the CEO & VP said that while I was the toughest Union Rep they had dealt with, I was also the most fair. I took that as a compliment and always will. I still have members calling me almost weekly, about retirement issues and such, and I'm happy I can get them helped, or pointed in the right direction.

I still tell people, that when you are sick and have to stay home, but are still getting paid, Thank a Union Worker. Or when you get a paid vacation, Thank a Union Worker. When you have safety in the workplace, Thank a Union Worker. The same, when you get paid for not working on a holiday. Or, when you get paid overtime on your job. All of these were fought for and won, by union workers. Company's did not grant these out of the goodness of their hearts. Men and Women sacrificed, bled, and some even died, to get us to the standards most workers enjoy today.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby mmcnx2 on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:38 am

If folks want to join a union they should be able to, however no one should be required to join just because someone has declared the place a union shop. In turn companies should be able to bargain with who ever they want. If they want to negotiate with each individual that is fine, if they want to recognize the union that is fine to. However, a company should not be required to negotiate with anyone including the unions. If a company does not want to negotiate with a union they just need to be prepared to replace the workers that don't want the jobs for what they are willing to pay - that is free market.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby Erud on Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:41 am

The Pioneer Press has the same story going on here:

http://www.twincities.com/2017/10/24/po ... 3584013796

I got sucked into arguing with some folks in the comments. Seems a lot of people would prefer that rights are not extended to folks they disagree with politically.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby jakiah on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:22 am

mmcnx2 wrote:If folks want to join a union they should be able to, however no one should be required to join just because someone has declared the place a union shop.


For the record, nobody is required to "join." Agency/Fee Payers do contribute a fair share fee vs. full dues towards the expenses of administering the contract and associated benefits they enjoy (the union is obligated to provide representation even to non-members.) They can exercise their free market choice and leave to one of the many alternative employers in the area that don't have representation and collect these riches, they never do.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby crbutler on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:24 am

I guess I would like to know what his position on private gun sales is.

Isn’t he a democrat? Isn’t his party’s position that private sales should be banned?

If he believes in that then he’s a lying hypocrite and deserves to have this stuff said about him.

On the other hand, if you don’t tell the police the SNs they are not proven as stolen goods, and not only are you unlikely to get them back, I can pretty much guarantee without a police report with sn’s that your insurance won’t pay up either.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby xd ED on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:34 am

crbutler wrote:I guess I would like to know what his position on private gun sales is.

Isn’t he a democrat? Isn’t his party’s position that private sales should be banned?

If he believes in that then he’s a lying hypocrite and deserves to have this stuff said about him.

On the other hand, if you don’t tell the police the SNs they are not proven as stolen goods, and not only are you unlikely to get them back, I can pretty much guarantee without a police report with sn’s that your insurance won’t pay up either.


I spent some time going through Carter's online campaigning, and social media looking for his positions on guns.
I could not find a single statement on firearms/ 'gun violence'.
Of course, plenty of time has passed since the burglary to get rid of anything hypocritical.

And you are quite correct about insurance.
I went through something similar.
As I was the first purchaser of everything stolen, the various FFLs/ dealers could provide needed SNs, as well as purchase receipts, which the insurance carrier required.
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby Erud on Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:38 am

crbutler wrote:I guess I would like to know what his position on private gun sales is.

Isn’t he a democrat? Isn’t his party’s position that private sales should be banned?

If he believes in that then he’s a lying hypocrite and deserves to have this stuff said about him.

On the other hand, if you don’t tell the police the SNs they are not proven as stolen goods, and not only are you unlikely to get them back, I can pretty much guarantee without a police report with sn’s that your insurance won’t pay up either.


Ok, but as an America citizen, doesn’t this guy have the same rights that the rest of us have in regards to the 2nd and 4th Amendments?
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Re: St Paul Police Union up Mayoral candidates butt about guns

Postby crbutler on Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:05 pm

Yes he has the same rights, just if he’s a hypocrite that should be part of any story on him in the paper.

I’m not saying he should be jailed or have his rights taken away.

But the unions first amendment rights allow them to say this... and evidently it’s factual or we would be hearing libel charges pressed.

Put it this way, it would make a difference as to whether I would vote for him in the absence of a policy regarding gun rights.
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