Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

[Holland&Holland]

It will be interesting to see what happened with the FBI investigation. I think it is plausible they ran into a dead end,that without some sort of pre-crime enforcement, or violation of due process, they had to give up the chase. I think we should be just as wary of those calling to limit due process rights as were are the 2A. Risk is inherent to a life of Liberty.

Exactly.

[greenfarmer]

I can not disagree with you more. I believe in freedom, not socialism.

I think you better look around. 30 years ago, we had freedom! Now, this country is becoming more socialist than ever. Why? Society has changed. And now because of the way society is, we need more laws in certain areas to protect people from others.

Seriously, sit back and think about it.

This kid was probably never spanked. Mom or dad probably never disciplined him. He was probably able to get away with anything he wanted to. It's obvious! School had to expel him because of it. There's flat out no respect anymore for other people, their lives, or their property. It's all about me. It's the way kids are raised now.

Seriously, look back thru history. Since columbine, it's a kid that goes back and pulls this stuff. It's not a 45 year old adult. It's a kid. They aren't raised now, the way some of us older generation were. Mommy or daddy coddled him, let him get his way 24/7, then an authority figure stepped on their toes just once, and then they go off and do things like this.

Columbine
Aurora
Sandy hook
Florida night club
Most recent

It's all kids!

Mom and dad, teachers, authority figures.. they need discipline, and to spark these little brats once in a while. So these kids actually learn respect, and what's right from wrong. But nope, society has gone way too much of a pansy, coddle these little babies type of parenting.

So your proposal, let me get this straight, is no one is allowed to own guns until the age of 45, unless they have a certificate stating they were beat by Green Farmer as a kid? Sounds like a great platform.[/quote]

Ok holland and holland, I'm going to break it down for you so it's easier to understand

Columbine shooting was done by 2 kids, who if I remember correctly were 17 and 18 years old
Aurora was done by one shooter who was 24 at the time, also, this wasn't a school.
Sandy hook was done by a 20 year old
Florida night club was a 29 year old security guard. Another non school shooting
MSD high school in Florida was a 19 year old kid.

Now, because of the generation gap, and how children were raised in years ago, compared to kids now, that's where this sort of thing is coming from. Now it's participation ribbon bs, to make these kids all feel good. Where as my generation, you had to work to earn it. You worked to earn and understand what respect is, what listening to your elders is. What's right from wrong. You weren't coddled.

Now, these kids that are pulling these heinous acts off, are from the generation of participation ribbons, coddled, given what they want, without learning respect or what work is, they are never forced to go out and earn what they have. Mommy and daddy reinforce the bad behavior by rewarding them. Adam Lanza was reported to have said at one time he felt his mother loved the children at the school more than him, back when she worked there before he went on his shooting spree.

There were reports of him planning that, and talking about it years before he did it.

There are reports of this 19 year old talking about it on social media prior to it happening. Now reports of voices in his head telling him to do it.

It's a mental health problem. And it all starts with the family and home life. It's a fact! There has been studies and information out there you can take the time to research if you'd like. But children that grow up in a broken home, are 9 times more likely to commit crimes. And a child growing up in a broken home, also doesn't face the discipline that older generations did. Because mother and father coddle the child because they fight for that child's attention, and want to use that lack of discipline to have the child want to be with them, or think they are the better parent.

This Cruz came from a broken home. He and his brother were adopted at a very young age. Father died a long time ago. Then his mother died.

Adam Lanza, his parents were divorced in 2009 and she was awarded custody of him.

The two columbine shooters were arrested in January 1998 and charged with 3 felonies. They were put in a juvenile diversion program. Lol! Eric Harris actually didn't even finish his! But talked his supervisor into signing off on hours that he wasn't there for.

Now, tell me again, where exactly am I wrong? The way children are raised now, compared to when I was a child, is so much more different. Broken homes, lack of discipline, and respect. I will guarantee you, that has something to do with these cases.

[Jackpine Savage]

It will be interesting to see what happened with the FBI investigation. I think it is plausible they ran into a dead end,that without some sort of pre-crime enforcement, or violation of due process, they had to give up the chase. I think we should be just as wary of those calling to limit due process rights as were are the 2A. Risk is inherent to a life of Liberty.

Naw, it didn't even get that far. It was a typical bureaucratic screw up.

Florida school shooting: FBI failed to act on gunman concerns

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On 5 January a person close to the teenager contacted the FBI tipline to provide "information about Cruz's gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behaviour, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting", said an FBI press release.

The agency said that under established protocols, the caller's information to the Public Access Line should have been assessed as a potential threat to life and passed on to the Miami field office.

"We have determined these protocols were not followed," said the FBI.

FBI Director Christopher Wray said the bureau is "still investigating the facts".
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More at link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43090664

[Holland&Holland]

So the ones that occurred in the 50s were because of hippees then? You know the ones who did not have the discipline from the 20's.

[Jack's My dog]

Naw, it didn't even get that far. It was a typical bureaucratic screw up.

Florida school shooting: FBI failed to act on gunman concerns

.
.
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On 5 January a person close to the teenager contacted the FBI tipline to provide "information about Cruz's gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behaviour, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting", said an FBI press release.

The agency said that under established protocols, the caller's information to the Public Access Line should have been assessed as a potential threat to life and passed on to the Miami field office.

"We have determined these protocols were not followed," said the FBI.

FBI Director Christopher Wray said the bureau is "still investigating the facts".
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More at link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43090664

[/quote]

Unfortunate if this is in fact the case. Be ready for those calling to "temporarily" put rights on hold so the full protocols can play out, just to make sure the bureaucrats have time to get it right.

[Bearcatrp]

It will be interesting to see what happened with the FBI investigation. I think it is plausible they ran into a dead end,that without some sort of pre-crime enforcement, or violation of due process, they had to give up the chase. I think we should be just as wary of those calling to limit due process rights as were are the 2A. Risk is inherent to a life of Liberty.

This was a credible threat, just like a terrorist making a threat. And they gave up on the kid? BS. After all the school shooting since Columbine, this should have been a top priority. IP addresses is not that had to track. The message left has a IP address stored on the web sites server. They can track back through the isp service to the house it came from. The FBI failed doing their job! Couldn’t prove it but possible politics played a role as we all know how Trump and the FBI get along. And now we have all the political tards running for office in Minnesota calling for a ban. Instead of finding out who dropped the ball and fixing that, they use the knee jerk method to call for a ban. You don’t see a call to ban cars so folks on their 10th DWI don’t kill anyone else. Drunks in vehicles kill more folks than school shootings. Don’t think it will happen though. To much money involved killing a product that employs thousands.

[MJY65]

Drunks in vehicles kill more folks than school shootings.

Oh heck yes. The graphic on CNN the other day showed 250 dead in school shootings starting with Columbine. 250 in 19 years. Thirteen per year. Yes, I know 13 is a lot if you are directly affected. On the other hand, aren't we up around 75 school age children dead from the flu this year? The risk to an individual (much like islamic terrorism) is ridiculously overestimated.

[Jack's My dog]

It will be interesting to see what happened with the FBI investigation. I think it is plausible they ran into a dead end,that without some sort of pre-crime enforcement, or violation of due process, they had to give up the chase. I think we should be just as wary of those calling to limit due process rights as were are the 2A. Risk is inherent to a life of Liberty.

This was a credible threat, just like a terrorist making a threat. And they gave up on the kid? BS. After all the school shooting since Columbine, this should have been a top priority. IP addresses is not that had to track. The message left has a IP address stored on the web sites server. They can track back through the isp service to the house it came from. The FBI failed doing their job! Couldn’t prove it but possible politics played a role as we all know how Trump and the FBI get along. And now we have all the political tards running for office in Minnesota calling for a ban. Instead of finding out who dropped the ball and fixing that, they use the knee jerk method to call for a ban. You don’t see a call to ban cars so folks on their 10th DWI don’t kill anyone else. Drunks in vehicles kill more folks than school shootings. Don’t think it will happen though. To much money involved killing a product that employs thousands.

Not saying the threat was not credible, nor am I saying due diligence should not be done. I am just open to the possibility that due diligence could still leave the authorities in a position where they are unable to take action due to due process. This may or may not be the case with this situation. Jack Savage's post would suggest it is not.

There are probably a lot of people in the FBI that are not a fan of our current Potus, but I am guessing that there are precious few, so cold and calculating to let this happen for political gains, I would guess there are even less that could predict this kids future actions to use him for political points.

[Ghost]

Greenfarmer, you are the only one blaming the tool.

I never blamed the tool! It's the person, always has been, always will be. It's the complete lack of structure, discipline, and guidance in that persons life that leads them to make bad decisions in life. The gun has nothing to do with it. It's just a tool they are using.

But, I would also consider looking at an age restriction on AR's.

Why not cars, all guns and all pointy objects? Seems to me you are of the opinion that one gun kills better than another so it should be controlled more than the other. Are you still not blaming the tool?

[Ghost]

I said if you look back, thru history, it's always a kid that pulls this stuff. You don't see the 45 year old adult. Other than Las Vegas. It's a kid that's doing these school shootings! Look at these. Columbine, aurora, sandy hook, Florida nightclub, and now Florida.. now read it, reread, and read it once more and comprehend what I'm saying. Because this is a lack of paenting, and discipline that leads to this stuff. It's the participation ribbon bs that society has forced upon us.

No

The largest mass killing at a school happened 90 years ago. Nobody was shot. 38 elementary school children were killed and 6 adults by a 55 year old man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[Ghost]

Naw, it didn't even get that far. It was a typical bureaucratic screw up.

Florida school shooting: FBI failed to act on gunman concerns

.
.
.
On 5 January a person close to the teenager contacted the FBI tipline to provide "information about Cruz's gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behaviour, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting", said an FBI press release.

The agency said that under established protocols, the caller's information to the Public Access Line should have been assessed as a potential threat to life and passed on to the Miami field office.

"We have determined these protocols were not followed," said the FBI.

FBI Director Christopher Wray said the bureau is "still investigating the facts".
.
.
More at link: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43090664

Unfortunate if this is in fact the case. Be ready for those calling to "temporarily" put rights on hold so the full protocols can play out, just to make sure the bureaucrats have time to get it right.

Just to be clear this is not regarding the YouTuber tip as that was last year. So the FBI had been warned at least twice about him.

Here's the official statement

[greenfarmer]

I said if you look back, thru history, it's always a kid that pulls this stuff. You don't see the 45 year old adult. Other than Las Vegas. It's a kid that's doing these school shootings! Look at these. Columbine, aurora, sandy hook, Florida nightclub, and now Florida.. now read it, reread, and read it once more and comprehend what I'm saying. Because this is a lack of paenting, and discipline that leads to this stuff. It's the participation ribbon bs that society has forced upon us.

No

The largest mass killing at a school happened 90 years ago. Nobody was shot. 38 elementary school children were killed and 6 adults by a 55 year old man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Uh hmm...

I typed SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

I wasn't talking about bombings, or suicide bombings, or massacres. I am talking SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. Although, any sort of a killing of more than 4 people is considered a massacre. So let's not forget 9/11/2001 which there was no gun, or NICS check involved.

So you can remove your "No"

[Ghost]

I said if you look back, thru history, it's always a kid that pulls this stuff. You don't see the 45 year old adult. Other than Las Vegas. It's a kid that's doing these school shootings! Look at these. Columbine, aurora, sandy hook, Florida nightclub, and now Florida.. now read it, reread, and read it once more and comprehend what I'm saying. Because this is a lack of paenting, and discipline that leads to this stuff. It's the participation ribbon bs that society has forced upon us.

No

The largest mass killing at a school happened 90 years ago. Nobody was shot. 38 elementary school children were killed and 6 adults by a 55 year old man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Uh hmm...

I typed SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

I wasn't talking about bombings, or suicide bombings, or massacres. I am talking SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. Although, any sort of a killing of more than 4 people is considered a massacre. So let's not forget 9/11/2001 which there was no gun, or NICS check involved.

So you can remove your "No"

Back to the tool then

[Ghost]

https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/rick-scott-calls-for-fbi-director-to-resign-after-shooter-tip-was-missed/

Florida Gov. Rick Scott is demanding FBI Director Christopher Wray resign — after his agency admitted Friday that it ignored a tip about school shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz just a month ago.

“We constantly promote ‘see something, say something,’ and a courageous person did just that to the FBI. And the FBI failed to act,” Scott fumed in a statement.

“Seventeen innocent people are dead and acknowledging a mistake isn’t going to cut it. An apology will never bring these 17 Floridians back to life or comfort the families who are in pain.”

A month before Cruz allegedly slaughtered 17 people at his former high school, a person “close to” him called the FBI’s tipline and reported that the 19-year-old had a “desire to kill people” and there was “potential of him conducting a school shooting” — and yet the agency didn’t pass the info on to its Miami field office, it revealed.

Wray apologized in a statement, saying that “[we] deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy” and vowing to investigate how such a massive blunder happened.

[Holland&Holland]

I said if you look back, thru history, it's always a kid that pulls this stuff. You don't see the 45 year old adult. Other than Las Vegas. It's a kid that's doing these school shootings! Look at these. Columbine, aurora, sandy hook, Florida nightclub, and now Florida.. now read it, reread, and read it once more and comprehend what I'm saying. Because this is a lack of paenting, and discipline that leads to this stuff. It's the participation ribbon bs that society has forced upon us.

No

The largest mass killing at a school happened 90 years ago. Nobody was shot. 38 elementary school children were killed and 6 adults by a 55 year old man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

Uh hmm...

I typed SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

I wasn't talking about bombings, or suicide bombings, or massacres. I am talking SCHOOL SHOOTINGS. Although, any sort of a killing of more than 4 people is considered a massacre. So let's not forget 9/11/2001 which there was no gun, or NICS check involved.

So you can remove your "No"

You have yet to respond to my comments. How do you explain the school SHOOTINGs in the 1950s? I am just trying to get a gauge as to which generation of kids are the bad ones.