Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby Ghost on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:49 am

greenfarmer wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Mkes you wonder if the FBI let it go so Trump can have another bloodshed on his record. Pretty much known the FBI doesn't like trump. Can't tell me they could not find the source of that posting. They can find terrorists fast, why not this guy? Pretty sure the FBI snoops in all social media sites. Probably using key words to sniff, then flag anything that meets the words for them to check it out.


That's what stinks to high heaven about this whole thing. They can find terrorists, they can find anyone they want, in a relatively short period of time. But they couldn't find this kid? He was posting stuff on social media. Living in the area. His mom passed away months ago, and it was documented who he was living with. But yet they couldn't find him?

That's why I say...... someone dropped the ball on this one! Someone really screwed up. And now 17 are dead because of it. It's not the guns fault. It's not the magazines fault. It's not the ammunitions fault. It's the fault of someone else, not doing their job, or being to lazy or complacent.

No, it's still the kids fault.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby greenfarmer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:00 am

I can not disagree with you more. I believe in freedom, not socialism.[/quote]

I think you better look around. 30 years ago, we had freedom! Now, this country is becoming more socialist than ever. Why? Society has changed. And now because of the way society is, we need more laws in certain areas to protect people from others.

Seriously, sit back and think about it.

This kid was probably never spanked. Mom or dad probably never disciplined him. He was probably able to get away with anything he wanted to. It's obvious! School had to expel him because of it. There's flat out no respect anymore for other people, their lives, or their property. It's all about me. It's the way kids are raised now.

Seriously, look back thru history. Since columbine, it's a kid that goes back and pulls this stuff. It's not a 45 year old adult. It's a kid. They aren't raised now, the way some of us older generation were. Mommy or daddy coddled him, let him get his way 24/7, then an authority figure stepped on their toes just once, and then they go off and do things like this.

Columbine
Aurora
Sandy hook
Florida night club
Most recent

It's all kids!

Mom and dad, teachers, authority figures.. they need discipline, and to spark these little brats once in a while. So these kids actually learn respect, and what's right from wrong. But nope, society has gone way too much of a pansy, coddle these little babies type of parenting.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby greenfarmer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:02 am

Ghost wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Mkes you wonder if the FBI let it go so Trump can have another bloodshed on his record. Pretty much known the FBI doesn't like trump. Can't tell me they could not find the source of that posting. They can find terrorists fast, why not this guy? Pretty sure the FBI snoops in all social media sites. Probably using key words to sniff, then flag anything that meets the words for them to check it out.


That's what stinks to high heaven about this whole thing. They can find terrorists, they can find anyone they want, in a relatively short period of time. But they couldn't find this kid? He was posting stuff on social media. Living in the area. His mom passed away months ago, and it was documented who he was living with. But yet they couldn't find him?

That's why I say...... someone dropped the ball on this one! Someone really screwed up. And now 17 are dead because of it. It's not the guns fault. It's not the magazines fault. It's not the ammunitions fault. It's the fault of someone else, not doing their job, or being to lazy or complacent.

No, it's still the kids fault.


Yes, it's the kids fault. But, there is plenty of blame to go around. People need to quit blaming the tool, and lay the blame where it really belongs!
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby greenfarmer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:14 am

Ghost wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Mkes you wonder if the FBI let it go so Trump can have another bloodshed on his record. Pretty much known the FBI doesn't like trump. Can't tell me they could not find the source of that posting. They can find terrorists fast, why not this guy? Pretty sure the FBI snoops in all social media sites. Probably using key words to sniff, then flag anything that meets the words for them to check it out.


That's what stinks to high heaven about this whole thing. They can find terrorists, they can find anyone they want, in a relatively short period of time. But they couldn't find this kid? He was posting stuff on social media. Living in the area. His mom passed away months ago, and it was documented who he was living with. But yet they couldn't find him?

That's why I say...... someone dropped the ball on this one! Someone really screwed up. And now 17 are dead because of it. It's not the guns fault. It's not the magazines fault. It's not the ammunitions fault. It's the fault of someone else, not doing their job, or being to lazy or complacent.

No, it's still the kids fault.


Say what you want, but parenting, and authority figures are still holding a lot of blame in this. Not the gun.

Yes, the kid pulled the trigger, his mind was messed up. But how did his mind get that way? Lack of parenting, authority figures, and respect in his life. It's all coddling, and their feeling of entitlement. Watch the news, read the paper. Kids get disciplined, parents get in trouble. Talk shows blame the tool used, but don't look into the real issue, or real cause of the problem. Nobody wants to take responsibility, or put the blame where it really lies. They just want to take the tool away.

Man, it's all pansies now. When I was growing up, if I didn't listen to my dad, didn't do my work when I was supposed to, didn't respect authority figures, my dad would take me and whoop my backside like you wouldn't believe. But now, you spank a kid, and your going to jail! That's where this country has become so socialist, and messed up. There's no freedom now like there was 30-40 years ago. But that's just how a central part of the United States of America raised their children. Country boys grew up a lot different than city boys did.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:16 am

greenfarmer wrote:I can not disagree with you more. I believe in freedom, not socialism.


I think you better look around. 30 years ago, we had freedom! Now, this country is becoming more socialist than ever. Why? Society has changed. And now because of the way society is, we need more laws in certain areas to protect people from others.

Seriously, sit back and think about it.

This kid was probably never spanked. Mom or dad probably never disciplined him. He was probably able to get away with anything he wanted to. It's obvious! School had to expel him because of it. There's flat out no respect anymore for other people, their lives, or their property. It's all about me. It's the way kids are raised now.

Seriously, look back thru history. Since columbine, it's a kid that goes back and pulls this stuff. It's not a 45 year old adult. It's a kid. They aren't raised now, the way some of us older generation were. Mommy or daddy coddled him, let him get his way 24/7, then an authority figure stepped on their toes just once, and then they go off and do things like this.

Columbine
Aurora
Sandy hook
Florida night club
Most recent

It's all kids!

Mom and dad, teachers, authority figures.. they need discipline, and to spark these little brats once in a while. So these kids actually learn respect, and what's right from wrong. But nope, society has gone way too much of a pansy, coddle these little babies type of parenting.[/quote]

So your proposal, let me get this straight, is no one is allowed to own guns until the age of 45, unless they have a certificate stating they were beat by Green Farmer as a kid? Sounds like a great platform.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby Ghost on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:18 am

Greenfarmer, you are the only one blaming the tool.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby mrp on Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:24 am

Bearcatrp wrote:Mkes you wonder if the FBI let it go so Trump can have another bloodshed on his record.


Does it? Does it really make you wonder that?
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:17 am

Well, here it comes. MN Gun Owner's Caucus email is out. Looks like a number of DFLers in MN calling for banning all AR-15s in MN and a bill on its way to the legislature. I am assuming a lot of this is still a reaction to the Vegas shooting, this one will only add to the call...
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby BigBlue on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:19 am

I agree very strongly with the discussion above about parenting and the way society treats people these days as being the root of the problem. As mentioned, kids these days don't respect and, frankly let's face it, fear authority. Knowing there are real and painful ramifications to doing something bad is a good deterrent. I'm not saying kids need to be beaten but knowing you could get a spanking or lose the ability to do something you really like or have a favorite thing taken away is powerful motivation. This goes hand-in-hand with rewarding kids for actually succeeding and winning, versus telling everyone they did great even when they lost the contest.

As for the earlier discussion about being proactive, monitoring what people say and do and taking preventative action, that is very problematic. Looking back on this situation it is easy to say "he threatened to be a school shooter so why didn't they get him then?" but those types of things are a very gray area. Subjective to many interpretations and decisions. Who do you trust to make the _right_ choice when they have that power? And how do you guarantee that someone doesn't rise to that power that will abuse it? The fact is that people are good (or considered to be good) until they are proven not to. It's the breaking of a law or a societal norm that moves them from good to bad. Unfortunately sometimes their first crossing of that boundary is very dramatic and destructive. Look at this kid or the Vegas killer. Legal until they weren't and then oh boy. But if the gov had locked up this kid 6 months ago because of what they thought he might be capable of that has the ramifications mentioned above. Same for the Vegas guy. Should he have been jailed because he bought a lot of guns?

All of this is why I strongly urge folks who want to find ways to fix these issues to focus on why the people turn evil. Paragraph 1. Fix society.

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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby MJY65 on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am

Holland&Holland wrote:Well, here it comes. MN Gun Owner's Caucus email is out. Looks like a number of DFLers in MN calling for banning all AR-15s in MN and a bill on its way to the legislature. I am assuming a lot of this is still a reaction to the Vegas shooting, this one will only add to the call...



This is why it is critically important to maintain Republican control of the legislature. It's not just about your local guy, but who will set the agenda. The liberal calls for bans will be annoying this session, but go nowhere. Let's keep it that way in November.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby greenfarmer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:34 am

Holland&Holland wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:I can not disagree with you more. I believe in freedom, not socialism.


I think you better look around. 30 years ago, we had freedom! Now, this country is becoming more socialist than ever. Why? Society has changed. And now because of the way society is, we need more laws in certain areas to protect people from others.

Seriously, sit back and think about it.

This kid was probably never spanked. Mom or dad probably never disciplined him. He was probably able to get away with anything he wanted to. It's obvious! School had to expel him because of it. There's flat out no respect anymore for other people, their lives, or their property. It's all about me. It's the way kids are raised now.

Seriously, look back thru history. Since columbine, it's a kid that goes back and pulls this stuff. It's not a 45 year old adult. It's a kid. They aren't raised now, the way some of us older generation were. Mommy or daddy coddled him, let him get his way 24/7, then an authority figure stepped on their toes just once, and then they go off and do things like this.

Columbine
Aurora
Sandy hook
Florida night club
Most recent

It's all kids!

Mom and dad, teachers, authority figures.. they need discipline, and to spark these little brats once in a while. So these kids actually learn respect, and what's right from wrong. But nope, society has gone way too much of a pansy, coddle these little babies type of parenting.


So your proposal, let me get this straight, is no one is allowed to own guns until the age of 45, unless they have a certificate stating they were beat by Green Farmer as a kid? Sounds like a great platform.[/quote]

Wow, I'm thinking there's some serious lack of comprehension among some on this board. Or, some just feel they have a god given right to twist words.

Where did I say nobody should be allowed to own a gun until they are 45? Or unless they have a certificate saying they were beaten by me as a kid? Lol

I said if you look back, thru history, it's always a kid that pulls this stuff. You don't see the 45 year old adult. Other than Las Vegas. It's a kid that's doing these school shootings! Look at these. Columbine, aurora, sandy hook, Florida nightclub, and now Florida.. now read it, reread, and read it once more and comprehend what I'm saying. Because this is a lack of paenting, and discipline that leads to this stuff. It's the participation ribbon bs that society has forced upon us.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby Holland&Holland on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:38 am

greenfarmer wrote:
Holland&Holland wrote:
greenfarmer wrote:I can not disagree with you more. I believe in freedom, not socialism.


I think you better look around. 30 years ago, we had freedom! Now, this country is becoming more socialist than ever. Why? Society has changed. And now because of the way society is, we need more laws in certain areas to protect people from others.

Seriously, sit back and think about it.

This kid was probably never spanked. Mom or dad probably never disciplined him. He was probably able to get away with anything he wanted to. It's obvious! School had to expel him because of it. There's flat out no respect anymore for other people, their lives, or their property. It's all about me. It's the way kids are raised now.

Seriously, look back thru history. Since columbine, it's a kid that goes back and pulls this stuff. It's not a 45 year old adult. It's a kid. They aren't raised now, the way some of us older generation were. Mommy or daddy coddled him, let him get his way 24/7, then an authority figure stepped on their toes just once, and then they go off and do things like this.

Columbine
Aurora
Sandy hook
Florida night club
Most recent

It's all kids!

Mom and dad, teachers, authority figures.. they need discipline, and to spark these little brats once in a while. So these kids actually learn respect, and what's right from wrong. But nope, society has gone way too much of a pansy, coddle these little babies type of parenting.


So your proposal, let me get this straight, is no one is allowed to own guns until the age of 45, unless they have a certificate stating they were beat by Green Farmer as a kid? Sounds like a great platform.


Wow, I'm thinking there's some serious lack of comprehension among some on this board. Or, some just feel they have a god given right to twist words.

Where did I say nobody should be allowed to own a gun until they are 45? Or unless they have a certificate saying they were beaten by me as a kid? Lol

I said if you look back, thru history, it's always a kid that pulls this stuff. You don't see the 45 year old adult. Other than Las Vegas. It's a kid that's doing these school shootings! Look at these. Columbine, aurora, sandy hook, Florida nightclub, and now Florida.. now read it, reread, and read it once more and comprehend what I'm saying. Because this is a lack of paenting, and discipline that leads to this stuff. It's the participation ribbon bs that society has forced upon us.[/quote]

I think you need to read what you wrote and COMPREHEND what you wrote.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby greenfarmer on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:40 am

Ghost wrote:Greenfarmer, you are the only one blaming the tool.



I never blamed the tool! It's the person, always has been, always will be. It's the complete lack of structure, discipline, and guidance in that persons life that leads them to make bad decisions in life. The gun has nothing to do with it. It's just a tool they are using.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby MNIceMan on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:04 pm

How about we just give everyone here a participation award since you showed up to comment. Better yet, how about everyone on the board gets one.
Now tell me why the kids act out this way.
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Re: Florida shooting suspect Nikolas Cruz: Guns, depression and

Postby Jack's My dog on Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:11 pm

It will be interesting to see what happened with the FBI investigation. I think it is plausible they ran into a dead end,that without some sort of pre-crime enforcement, or violation of due process, they had to give up the chase. I think we should be just as wary of those calling to limit due process rights as were are the 2A. Risk is inherent to a life of Liberty.
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