MNGunTalk.com

Posted: **Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:59 pm**

Video evidence reveals that an armed Broward County resource deputy stationed at Stoneman Douglas High School during the Valentine's day massacre did "nothing" during the shooting - instead waiting outside as a gunman opened fire on students and teachers, killing 17.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-22/he-never-went-officer-duty-filmed-doing-nothing-during-florida-shooting

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:12 am**

If he was able to "resign and retire" it sounds like he was at the school to run out the clock until his pension kicked in. It was supposed to be "safe".

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:43 am**

MJY65 wrote:If he was able to "resign and retire" it sounds like he was at the school to run out the clock until his pension kicked in. It was supposed to be "safe".

My first thought exactly.. :iagree:

But we can rely on the police to protect us, we don't need guns. :roll:

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:13 am**

Seems the whole department was a cluster. I think the Sheriff should follow the deputy's lead.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:15 am**

So sickening. Some of those kids might have had a chance.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:00 am**

Let's see, cop has a pistol, kid has AR and other guns, cop is close to retiring, he is out gunned. What would you do? IMO, be would have been dead too. To hard to say though. Didn't have his training. Don't know if he ever fired his fun during his career. Me, I would have engaged. Also, saw a interview that a teacher saw the kid in full body armor.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:24 am**

Bearcatrp wrote:Let's see, cop has a pistol, kid has AR and other guns, cop is close to retiring, he is out gunned. What would you do? IMO, be would have been dead too. To hard to say though. Didn't have his training. Don't know if he ever fired his fun during his career. Me, I would have engaged. Also, saw a interview that a teacher saw the kid in full body armor.

The guy collected a paycheck for x decades to act in the event something like this happened.
Sitting it out wasn't part of the deal.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:32 am**

Bearcatrp wrote:Let's see, cop has a pistol, kid has AR and other guns, cop is close to retiring, he is out gunned. What would you do? IMO, be would have been dead too. To hard to say though. Didn't have his training. Don't know if he ever fired his fun during his career. Me, I would have engaged. Also, saw a interview that a teacher saw the kid in full body armor.

Being placed in the this particular LEO I would like to think I would have stepped up, but that is very easy for me to say from my keyboard. I believe there is legal precedent that LEO's are not actually required to protect you. I take no joy in these facts, but it will be interesting to see how the pro-control rage turns from good guys with a gun, "can't do anything", to "why didn't this good guy do anything". Though I understand, most would not equate a cc individual to a cop.

The argument for the AWB is based on time. "Assault rifles" can kill too many too fast. 4 minutes with a machete, let alone a revolver or double barrel shotgun and a bandolier is an awful lot of time to do some evil in a target rich environment. The same people that are arguing for the AWB are the ones arguing against having people in place that can take "immediate" action, to delay, deter, or put down an active shooter. It is not lost on me that many will use this event to say good guys can't do anything if this cop didn't. Can some one explain to me how you make a time based threat argument, and then argue against the possibility of immediate and direct response?

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:33 am**

I highly doubt that “can do officers” are school resource officers. Could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:41 am**

xd ED wrote:
Bearcatrp wrote:Let's see, cop has a pistol, kid has AR and other guns, cop is close to retiring, he is out gunned. What would you do? IMO, be would have been dead too. To hard to say though. Didn't have his training. Don't know if he ever fired his fun during his career. Me, I would have engaged. Also, saw a interview that a teacher saw the kid in full body armor.

The guy collected a paycheck for x decades to act in the event something like this happened.
Sitting it out wasn't part of the deal.

I think living with his decision would be tough.

I wish the teacher who died shielding students had a gun.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:43 am**

Sorcerer wrote:I highly doubt that “can do officers” are school resource officers. Could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Can't remember where I heard or read it but it's considered a coveted position in some agencies.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:34 am**

Warren vs. DC Police have no duty to protect.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v. ... f_Columbia

"Protect & Serve" is just painted on the door of the police cars. I believe MOST police officers do a GREAT job and their life is in danger all too often. But, at the end of the day they want to go home.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:06 am**

Ghost wrote:I think living with his decision would be tough.

I wish the teacher who died shielding students had a gun.

Yes, living with that decision to stand by doing nothing would be tough. I think it's despicable. Any resistance at all could have very well stopped the threat and at a minimum at least gotten the shooter to stop focusing temporarily on kids and teachers and instead focusing on returning fire towards the cop. The officer could have engaged from a position where he had cover. Yes, he was outgunned, but dammit return fire and give the kids a chance.

The subject of arming teachers is interesting to me. I don't think that any should be required to be armed. But let's at least give them the opportunity to do so voluntarily. And if they choose to do so voluntarily, then let's make sure we support them with proper training and a place to secure their firearm in their classroom if they choose not to have it on their person at all times. My daughter is graduating high school this year and her intent is to study to be a teacher, so I have a serious vested interest in this beyond just the fact that I already have kids in schools. I hate to think of her being a sitting duck with no means of defending herself and would love for her to at least have the option to carry a weapon to defend herself.

Another interesting point of discussion is whether teachers, if we choose to allow them to carry weapons to school, are required, legally or morally, to defend students or others beyond themselves. Theoretically, if you carry a weapon, your primary motive is the defense of yourself and to stop direct immediate threats to yourself. Who's to say that an armed teacher may very well just hole up in their own classroom with their weapon and just defend themselves until the shooter engaged them there? Teachers don't have a legal duty to risk life and limb to go out into the hallways or throughout the school to actively engage shooters. We can't hold them to the same standard as a police officer. But would hope that some, if not all of the armed teachers would offer some resistance and stop the threat. Either way, I don't want my daughter to be standing there empty handed while some **** shoots at her and her future students.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:26 am**

INOR wrote:
Ghost wrote:I think living with his decision would be tough.

I wish the teacher who died shielding students had a gun.

Yes, living with that decision to stand by doing nothing would be tough. I think it's despicable. Any resistance at all could have very well stopped the threat and at a minimum at least gotten the shooter to stop focusing temporarily on kids and teachers and instead focusing on returning fire towards the cop. The officer could have engaged from a position where he had cover. Yes, he was outgunned, but dammit return fire and give the kids a chance.

The subject of arming teachers is interesting to me. I don't think that any should be required to be armed. But let's at least give them the opportunity to do so voluntarily. And if they choose to do so voluntarily, then let's make sure we support them with proper training and a place to secure their firearm in their classroom if they choose not to have it on their person at all times. My daughter is graduating high school this year and her intent is to study to be a teacher, so I have a serious vested interest in this beyond just the fact that I already have kids in schools. I hate to think of her being a sitting duck with no means of defending herself and would love for her to at least have the option to carry a weapon to defend herself.

Another interesting point of discussion is whether teachers, if we choose to allow them to carry weapons to school, are required, legally or morally, to defend students or others beyond themselves. Theoretically, if you carry a weapon, your primary motive is the defense of yourself and to stop direct immediate threats to yourself. Who's to say that an armed teacher may very well just hole up in their own classroom with their weapon and just defend themselves until the shooter engaged them there? Teachers don't have a legal duty to risk life and limb to go out into the hallways or throughout the school to actively engage shooters. We can't hold them to the same standard as a police officer. But would hope that some, if not all of the armed teachers would offer some resistance and stop the threat. Either way, I don't want my daughter to be standing there empty handed while some **** shoots at her and her future students.

Correct. I would contend that by making schools normal and not "gun free" zones we will in effect already have made them safer. I am not expecting a teacher to endanger themselves, that is a decision they would have to make, I am not expecting that they carry. I know that in my local high school there are a number of teachers who already have permits to carry and would do so if allowed. I know many parents that would do so when in their normal business at the school and school events. This is the real strength of this proposal. Make the criminals wonder who they might encounter. The problem is when you post a zone as gun free you get the very best of society to disarm. These are the very people a safe society needs armed.

Posted: **Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:44 am**

Holland&Holland wrote:Correct. I would contend that by making schools normal and not "gun free" zones we will in effect already have made them safer. I am not expecting a teacher to endanger themselves, that is a decision they would have to make, I am not expecting that they carry. I know that in my local high school there are a number of teachers who already have permits to carry and would do so if allowed. I know many parents that would do so when in their normal business at the school and school events. This is the real strength of this proposal. Make the criminals wonder who they might encounter. The problem is when you post a zone as gun free you get the very best of society to disarm. These are the very people a safe society needs armed.

As was demonstrated in Florida - soon after residents were allowed permits to carry, there was a rash of assaults- car jackings, and muggings, on people driving rental cars, and speaking in European accents. It was almost a given those would be unarmed.
The value of having a random armed presence in the school is that, unlike a guy sleeping in the corner, it presents an unknown opposition.
While being armed would be a bad fit for many teachers, some would handle it well. One of the advantages of advanced age is having had a number of WWII vets as high school teachers. Among my favorites was a retired Marine Colonel who was a fighter jock in the S Pacific. There are still some like him in and amongst us.

And, as looney as the school shooters have been, they still target schools, as opposed to police stations...

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