Trump Is Caving In

[Ghost]

Shall not be infringed.

Yes we all know the words of the 2A but guns should not be an unregulated free for all. I really don't care what kind of nostalgia anyone has about guns in their childhood, minors are not responsible or mature enough to be in possession of a gun unsupervised. Should a guy beating his wife have a gun? Someone who is strung out on meth have a gun? Let's be realistic and understand why there are restrictions on who can buy a gun.

Are you capable of deciding who isn’t doing any of that? Is a background check? Don’t put so much faith in something that only catches the stupid people.

[Randygmn]

As far as age limits, why not do 21 for semi pistols/rifles. Let 18-20 learn on a bolt/wheel gun the responsibilities of a firearm. Mandatory gun training for 18-20 who want to purchase. Let them learn fundamentals. Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

What branch of Moms demand action are you a member of. There’s so much garbage in these 5 sentences that’s it’s not even worth deconstructing. And that’s my best attempt to be civil.

[Tronster]

Are you capable of deciding who isn’t doing any of that? Is a background check? Don’t put so much faith in something that only catches the stupid people.

Then by all means make a suggestion on how to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Make them pinkie promise? Scouts honor? Hand on a Bible?
Or would you like to just do away with NICS checks and let anyone buy whatever they want regardless of their criminal history, mental health, age, citizenship, drugs, etc?

[Ghost]

Are you capable of deciding who isn’t doing any of that? Is a background check? Don’t put so much faith in something that only catches the stupid people.

Then by all means make a suggestion on how to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Make them pinkie promise? Scouts honor? Hand on a Bible?
Or would you like to just do away with NICS checks and let anyone buy whatever they want regardless of their criminal history, mental health, age, citizenship, drugs, etc?

My suggestion is it’s not possible. You make it sound like the only way people can do bad things is with a gun.

I’d love to do away with NICS.

[xd ED]

If you have a permit to carry you shouldn't need any of it.

Alot of people don't have PTC but still want to buy or sell guns privately. I'd be much more comfortable selling to someone if I had more than just their 'word' to verify they are not a felon, drug addict, etc.

You personally are not forced to sell any firearm, to anyone, for any reason.

[Tronster]

Are you capable of deciding who isn’t doing any of that? Is a background check? Don’t put so much faith in something that only catches the stupid people.

Then by all means make a suggestion on how to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Make them pinkie promise? Scouts honor? Hand on a Bible?
Or would you like to just do away with NICS checks and let anyone buy whatever they want regardless of their criminal history, mental health, age, citizenship, drugs, etc?

My suggestion is it’s not possible. You make it sound like the only way people can do bad things is with a gun.

I’d love to do away with NICS.

Of course there are plenty of ways to inflict injury or death; guns, knives, cars, bombs, poison, arson, etc. Guns, being a projectile weapon, have the advantage of distance, speed, and ease of attack vs other options. They are also an equalizer between a powerful attacker and weaker victim. I know all about FBI stats and gun homicide rates and how knives are used more than long guns. I study crime stats and trends, gun laws, potential influences of homicide and suicide by state, and look to see what proposals each side is offering. Frankly the gun bans, mag limits, GFZ and registrations are all BS, but so is plugging our ears going LA LA LA. Mandatory universal background checks is back door registration via paper trail, but allowing private sellers to access NICS for a simple go/no-go would be more effective than asking "Are you a felon?".

Thanks for your honesty regarding NICS. Yes, criminals will find ways to get guns (straw buyers, theft, private sales). Is NICS perfect, of course not, no man made system is ever perfect, but I see absolutely no advantage in allowing prohibited individuals to just walk into the gun shop and buy one at the source no questions asked.

[BigBlue]

Then by all means make a suggestion on how to keep guns out of the wrong hands. Make them pinkie promise? Scouts honor? Hand on a Bible?
Or would you like to just do away with NICS checks and let anyone buy whatever they want regardless of their criminal history, mental health, age, citizenship, drugs, etc?

Sometimes the sad fact is that a bad act cannot be prevented. It all comes down to the person perpetrating the act and why they want to do it. If they want to do something they can find many ways to do it. If you eliminated every gun in existence they would still want to commit the carnage and they would find something else to use for it. Making it exceptionally difficult for law-abiding people to do normal, legal things is a case of diminishing returns for the actual desired outcome.

Gun control has come as far as it can effectively come. Now we need to work on why the people are evil and how to have a society that doesn't breed evil. Big question, challenging problem, long-term path to success. But the only one that will actually eliminate the evil. Is it broken families, lack of a father, dismissive and disrespectful treatment of others, spite, anger, hurt, desire to punish, etc??? Who knows. But if we can make fewer people feel the way they feel when they get to the point of committing these acts and if we can instill the sense of wrong in them at doing those acts, and if we can ensure that there is enough deterrence (in terms of punishment) if they do commit the acts then maybe we reduce them. But stop trying to find ways to keep the gun away from that person who, up until they commit the crime, is frequently totally law-abiding because it has too much collateral damage.

BB

[BigBlue]

...allowing private sellers to access NICS for a simple go/no-go would be more effective than asking "Are you a felon?"

How many instances of mass shootings were committed with weapons purchased in the way your proposal would affect? Most all guns were either acquired legally with actual background checks performed or else the gun was taken from someone else (by force or stealth). They were not purchased in exchanges without background checks by someone who would have otherwise failed a background check. It's just not a vector that really could lead to much positive outcome, statistically. But if implemented without utmost care and caution it WOULD have many negative side effects for law-abiding folks.

BB

[Tronster]

Yes, we need to focus on the breakdown of the family structure, morals, media influence and coping skills of young men, but those are all kind of nebulous topics that will require multiple small changes. The open NICS idea is admittedly more about curbing gang access to guns than stopping mass shooters who, yes, buy them legally. However several of the last shootings were failures of the NICS reporting system by the states, so that needs to be addressed as well.

[Bearcatrp]

As far as age limits, why not do 21 for semi pistols/rifles. Let 18-20 learn on a bolt/wheel gun the responsibilities of a firearm. Mandatory gun training for 18-20 who want to purchase. Let them learn fundamentals. Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

What branch of Moms demand action are you a member of. There’s so much garbage in these 5 sentences that’s it’s not even worth deconstructing. And that’s my best attempt to be civil.

You sound just like the NRA, budge on nothing. stand your ground. If you don't allow a little, that ground you stand on will be taken away. Then what? Going to pout because they took your guns? I am a member of the NRA! It's scary what is about to happen to all guns, not just semi auto firearms. These friggin nuts want them all gone. Their numbers are growing to the point its almost over 50%. If you have a better idea besides not budging an inch, lets hear it!

[Ghost]

Yes, we need to focus on the breakdown of the family structure, morals, media influence and coping skills of young men, but those are all kind of nebulous topics that will require multiple small changes. The open NICS idea is admittedly more about curbing gang access to guns than stopping mass shooters who, yes, buy them legally. However several of the last shootings were failures of the NICS reporting system by the states, so that needs to be addressed as well.

Some states do have mandatory background checks. Do they not still have gangs and murderers?

[Ghost]

As far as age limits, why not do 21 for semi pistols/rifles. Let 18-20 learn on a bolt/wheel gun the responsibilities of a firearm. Mandatory gun training for 18-20 who want to purchase. Let them learn fundamentals. Banning guns will just push the nuts to use something else such as a big vehicle like the Oklahoma.

What branch of Moms demand action are you a member of. There’s so much garbage in these 5 sentences that’s it’s not even worth deconstructing. And that’s my best attempt to be civil.

You sound just like the NRA, budge on nothing. stand your ground. If you don't allow a little, that ground you stand on will be taken away. Then what? Going to pout because they took your guns? I am a member of the NRA! It's scary what is about to happen to all guns, not just semi auto firearms. These friggin nuts want them all gone. Their numbers are growing to the point its almost over 50%. If you have a better idea besides not budging an inch, lets hear it!

You know how I know you don’t know the history of the NRA?

[Tronster]

Yes, we need to focus on the breakdown of the family structure, morals, media influence and coping skills of young men, but those are all kind of nebulous topics that will require multiple small changes. The open NICS idea is admittedly more about curbing gang access to guns than stopping mass shooters who, yes, buy them legally. However several of the last shootings were failures of the NICS reporting system by the states, so that needs to be addressed as well.

Some states do have mandatory background checks. Do they not still have gangs and murderers?

It would be foolish to think a private sale NICS access would eliminate gang violence. But if having the option to use it helped some private owners from inadvertently selling to felons then I think it's worthwhile to look into. It's better than instituting the UBC that records serial numbers on 4473's, and thus a paper trail. I'm just as realistic as anyone, and frankly there is no one solution to anything, and no way to eliminate all shootings or gang activity. What alternatives do you offer for keeping guns from the wrong people?

[Ghost]

Yes, we need to focus on the breakdown of the family structure, morals, media influence and coping skills of young men, but those are all kind of nebulous topics that will require multiple small changes. The open NICS idea is admittedly more about curbing gang access to guns than stopping mass shooters who, yes, buy them legally. However several of the last shootings were failures of the NICS reporting system by the states, so that needs to be addressed as well.

Some states do have mandatory background checks. Do they not still have gangs and murderers?

It would be foolish to think a private sale NICS access would eliminate gang violence. But if having the option to use it helped some private owners from inadvertently selling to felons then I think it's worthwhile to look into. It's better than instituting the UBC that records serial numbers on 4473's, and thus a paper trail. I'm just as realistic as anyone, and frankly there is no one solution to anything, and no way to eliminate all shootings or gang activity. What alternatives do you offer for keeping guns from the wrong people?

My opinion is that if you aren’t locked up you should be able to buy a gun, if felons aren’t safe then they shouldn’t be around me.

I prefer freedom over permission, some things are the unfortunate concequences of that.

ETA: nobody seems to care about guns in the hands of “the wrong people” otherwise Chicago wouldn’t have the death rate it does. The only reason we are talking about it is because of this “one hit wonder” in Florida that passed a background check.

[Tronster]

I guess we'll just disagree about how available guns should be to buy. If an ex-con wants to own guns again they can go through the court channels to have their rights restored, I've known a couple people who have done this. Chicago is a combination of anti-gun laws, a long time ban on pistols or PTC, crushing poverty and a shortage of police officers. Same as any other dense urban city with overly tight gun laws. The ATF would be well served to do away with stupid NFA rules like supressors and SBR's and spend those man hours on dirty gun dealers and thorough NICS reporting.