Vadnais Heights weapons seized

[INOR]

There are three federal charges. Two charges for two separate machine guns and one for the short barrel shotgun. Sounds like that dude is screwed. My guess is there will be additional counts added if it turns out that what was hidden in the ceiling are determined to violate NFA.

The more I look at what's written up so far, it's looking more and more like a credible threat that was reported appropriately, a sheriff's department that acted appropriately, and due process being followed.

Should Pigg still be sued into oblivion? Did she slander anyone? Or was she following up and protecting her kids and others? Wonder if Grandpa Stowe and the family are still planning to sue everybody for violation of their civil rights?

[Holland&Holland]

There are three federal charges. Two charges for two separate machine guns and one for the short barrel shotgun. Sounds like that dude is screwed. My guess is there will be additional counts added if it turns out that what was hidden in the ceiling are determined to violate NFA.

The more I look at what's written up so far, it's looking more and more like a credible threat that was reported appropriately, a sheriff's department that acted appropriately, and due process being followed.

Should Pigg still be sued into oblivion? Did she slander anyone? Or was she following up and protecting her kids and others? Wonder if Grandpa Stowe and the family are still planning to sue everybody for violation of their civil rights?

I vehemently disagree. I feel that with what we know, there was no credible threat. Law enforcement took an ultra conservative approach to not be labeled as Broward County and in that process stumbled upon a guy doing crap he should not have been doing.

Pigg obviously had some inside knowledge of what they had.

Obviously this is going to go bad for them and not a case one can hold up as an example. That does not mean that the base overreaction by law enforcement is correct or just.

[Holland&Holland]

It will be funny though if the short barreled shotgun ends up being a Mossberg shockwave.

[yukonjasper]

If all that was found was true, I don't have much sympathy. You have to play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, you work to change them.

I get that there is a group of gun owners who don't believe there should be any restrictions on anything........ever, but that kind of thinking forces you to live in a fantasy world that doesn't acknowledge reality. Put that together with allowing access to a minor whose autism we don't know anything about, spells a bad combination of judgment. It's this sort of bad judgment that I want to see dealt with because when it goes wrong, the Antis want to point to the guns as the problem when its the gun owners that have the wiring problem. I don't want to be associated with people who think like that, they aren't me and I am not them, so when someone does something like that, I want them made an example out of. Flame suite on, but you can't have it both ways - its either the gun or the person using the gun.........this is starting to look a lot like the person owning the guns was setting up a bad situation or at the very least, doing nothing responsible to keep a bad thing from happening.

Again, this is only from what is being reported, but I doubt they would go this far to make all that up, we'll see as the courts will have to sort it all out.

[Holland&Holland]

If all that was found was true, I don't have much sympathy. You have to play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, you work to change them.

I get that there is a group of gun owners who don't believe there should be any restrictions on anything........ever, but that kind of thinking forces you to live in a fantasy world that doesn't acknowledge reality. Put that together with allowing access to a minor whose autism we don't know anything about, spells a bad combination of judgment. It's this sort of bad judgment that I want to see dealt with because when it goes wrong, the Antis want to point to the guns as the problem when its the gun owners that have the wiring problem. I don't want to be associated with people who think like that, they aren't me and I am not them, so when someone does something like that, I want them made an example out of. Flame suite on, but you can't have it both ways - its either the gun or the person using the gun.........this is starting to look a lot like the person owning the guns was setting up a bad situation or at the very least, doing nothing responsible to keep a bad thing from happening.

Again, this is only from what is being reported, but I doubt they would go this far to make all that up, we'll see as the courts will have to sort it all out.

Well said. This I agree with.

[xd ED]

If all that was found was true, I don't have much sympathy. You have to play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, you work to change them.

I get that there is a group of gun owners who don't believe there should be any restrictions on anything........ever, but that kind of thinking forces you to live in a fantasy world that doesn't acknowledge reality. Put that together with allowing access to a minor whose autism we don't know anything about, spells a bad combination of judgment. It's this sort of bad judgment that I want to see dealt with because when it goes wrong, the Antis want to point to the guns as the problem when its the gun owners that have the wiring problem. I don't want to be associated with people who think like that, they aren't me and I am not them, so when someone does something like that, I want them made an example out of. Flame suite on, but you can't have it both ways - its either the gun or the person using the gun.........this is starting to look a lot like the person owning the guns was setting up a bad situation or at the very least, doing nothing responsible to keep a bad thing from happening.

Again, this is only from what is being reported, but I doubt they would go this far to make all that up, we'll see as the courts will have to sort it all out.

...this is starting to look a lot like the person owning the guns was setting up a bad situation...

That's the strangest, and darkest part about this whole thing.

The kid's access to any loaded gun, regardless of it's legitimacy is beyond the pale.

That said, watching the sheriff at his press conference did nothing to raise his stock, in my opinion.

[Holland&Holland]

If all that was found was true, I don't have much sympathy. You have to play by the rules. If you don't like the rules, you work to change them.

I get that there is a group of gun owners who don't believe there should be any restrictions on anything........ever, but that kind of thinking forces you to live in a fantasy world that doesn't acknowledge reality. Put that together with allowing access to a minor whose autism we don't know anything about, spells a bad combination of judgment. It's this sort of bad judgment that I want to see dealt with because when it goes wrong, the Antis want to point to the guns as the problem when its the gun owners that have the wiring problem. I don't want to be associated with people who think like that, they aren't me and I am not them, so when someone does something like that, I want them made an example out of. Flame suite on, but you can't have it both ways - its either the gun or the person using the gun.........this is starting to look a lot like the person owning the guns was setting up a bad situation or at the very least, doing nothing responsible to keep a bad thing from happening.

Again, this is only from what is being reported, but I doubt they would go this far to make all that up, we'll see as the courts will have to sort it all out.

...this is starting to look a lot like the person owning the guns was setting up a bad situation...

That's the strangest, and darkest part about this whole thing.

The kid's access to any loaded gun, regardless of it's legitimacy is beyond the pale.

That said, watching the sheriff at his press conference did nothing to raise his stock, in my opinion.

Exactly

[Randygmn]

I’m surprised by these turn of events, especially after hearing from an indignant grandfather.

I’m a little embarrassed that I allowed my anger to overcome me. This is a result of the latest attempts of authorities to infringe on our rights and the distrust in the radically biased main stream media.

Although I believe that Americans should be able to own any “terrible weapon of war”, I wouldn’t personally own anything that would jeopardize my physical freedom through incarceration. I can’t help to feel maybe these folks weren’t as benign as we would’ve liked to believe they were. I’m sure we’ll hear more about the drop in sears/lightning connectors, or whatever kind of “trigger kits” they recovered. I sure hope he wasn’t creating full auto weapons for sale/use.

[Ghost]

That is an interesting turn of events

[xd ED]

I’m surprised by these turn of events, especially after hearing from an indignant grandfather.

I’m a little embarrassed that I allowed my anger to overcome me. This is a result of the latest attempts of authorities to infringe on our rights and the distrust in the radically biased main stream media.

Although I believe that Americans should be able to own any “terrible weapon of war”, I wouldn’t personally own anything that would jeopardize my physical freedom through incarceration. I can’t help to feel maybe these folks weren’t as benign as we would’ve liked to believe they were. I’m sure we’ll hear more about the drop in sears/lightning connectors, or whatever kind of “trigger kits” they recovered. I sure hope he wasn’t creating full auto weapons for sale/use.

Thought about this myself.
First off most of 'us', who view these events, are a bit more informed, and critical (in the classic sense) than most people, and will almost instinctively react to the likes of the grandstanding sheriff, and his incendiary, and misleading vocabulary. It's a dance that's been performed too many times to far less music.
As H & H said, some times the witch hunts catch a witch.

ETA:
And let's not ever let a reaction to the nature of the crime, no matter how horrific, usurp a presumption of innocence.

[yukonjasper]

You don't hide legal things in the ceiling unless you are an alcoholic, cheating on your wife or something else destructive.

The gun community should find another "victim" to rally behind.

[INOR]

Did you guys read the charging statement? These people are morons.

3/1: Kid makes threat at school. As he's being escorted out of class tells people that they better hide in closets when he comes back as he's going to shoot them. (Is that a direct reference to the Parkland shooting where they did hide in closets?). Kid is suspended from school. Sheriffs department investigates and talks to mom and she lies and says there are no guns in the house. Ok, I get it, her instinct is to cover for her kid and I guess it's technically not illegal to lie to an officer. People lie to cops all the time. But seriously, how hard would it be for the sheriff's department to investigate just a hair further and find that either mom or dad had firearms or a permit? Combine a false statement with contradictory evidence and you have the basis for a warrant.

3/2: Next day the kid is suspended from school so he's home alone. Parents are away, presumably at work? So...AFTER their kid has been suspended from school for making multiple threats to shoot up the school and kill people, parents allegedly leave him home alone, with various weapons unsecured, some of them loaded, fully automatic weapons in the house, and trigger modification kits hidden in the house? Smart people. They didn't see that one coming? Thought that mom lying to the sheriff was going to be the end of it and there was no chance they would come back for a follow-up and with a warrant?

[xd ED]

You don't hide legal things in the ceiling unless you are an alcoholic, cheating on your wife or something else destructive.

The gun community should find another "victim" to rally behind.

You are surprised legal things get hidden in ceilings, and other building cavities?
Haven't heard anyone rally behind this guy giving his kid access to loaded guns.
Haven't seen a reason to rally behind the sheriff, either.
But I would like to hear more about Pigg.

[Rip Van Winkle]

I'm willing to walk back the sue into bankruptcy thing. I would like to know how the neighbor knew what he had though.

I'd also like to know, why no charges on the "explosive device(s)".

[xd ED]

I'm willing to walk back the sue into bankruptcy thing. I would like to know how the neighbor knew what he had though.

I'd also like to know, why no charges on the "explosive device(s)".

I'm sure the media is dogging the sheriff for answers to those questions.